PBL Simplified by Magnify Learning
PBL Simplified Podcast helps innovative principals and teachers like you bring Project Based Learning to your classrooms. PBL Simplified is in the top 5% of over 2 million global podcasts.
Hosted by Ryan Steuer, of Magnify Learning, we strive to empower school leaders and teachers with examples from Project Based Learning classrooms, leadership inspiration, and practical PBL resources.
Subscribe to the weekly podcast and visit WhatisPBL.com to get started on your Project Based Learning journey!
Whether you are a teacher or school leader, there is something for you on PBL Simplified:
1st Wednesday: PBL Leadership Episode
2nd Wednesday: PBL Showcase - a PBL facilitator shares a PBL Unit
3rd Wednesday: PBL Leadership Episode
4th Wednesday: PBL Interview.
Subscribe and listen to real educators like yourself, who are innovating in the classroom to help their learners become part of an inspiring story. For more Project Based Learning resources, visit www.magnifypbl.com
PBL Simplified by Magnify Learning
Movement Maker Spotlight: From Traditional District to PBL Model District - Assistant Superintendent Nathan Manley | E194
Unlock the secrets of effective Project Based Learning (PBL) transformation with Assistant Superintendent Dr. Nathan Manley, a Movement Maker in Project Based Learning. Dr. Manley shares his groundbreaking work at Rise Elementary, where he turned a unique downtown building into a dynamic STEAM school, fostering strong community ties and robust student engagement. Learn from his dissertation findings on PBL assessment and discover how this teaching method not only boosts academic performance but also significantly enhances communication, critical thinking, and problem-solving skills, especially for students with IEPs.
Witness the profound impact PBL has on both educators and students through real-life stories. Hear about a veteran teacher who found renewed joy and engagement in their profession by shifting from traditional methods to PBL, leading to more meaningful student outcomes. Understand the importance of giving teachers autonomy, belonging, and purpose, and how such an environment can transform classrooms into thriving hubs of innovation and community connection. PBL instills a sense of purpose and hope in students, driving their motivation and linking their learning to real-world applications.
Learn practical strategies for leaders to measure the right behaviors, foster a positive environment through gratitude, and celebrate collective achievements. This approach not only enhances individual well-being but also drives institutional change. Discover the power of a compelling vision and the importance of understanding the 'why' behind educational efforts. Honoring existing work, addressing real challenges, and continuously improving through learning and adaptation are key themes. Join us for invaluable insights that will inspire educators and leaders to foster a healthier, more productive educational environment.
JOIN THE ONLINE PBL COMMUNITY
https://resources.magnifylearningin.org/join-today
SIGN UP FOR THE MAGNIFY LEARNING NEWSLETTER
https://www.magnifylearningin.org/newsletter-sign-up
SHARE A PBL WIN!
ORDER THE BOOK PBL SIMPLIFIED (affiliate link)
SCHEDULE A PBL TRAINING WITH MAGNIFY LEARNING
https://resources.magnifylearningin.org/onsite-workshops
CHECK OUT RESOURCES MENTIONED ON THE PODCAST
FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA
BOOK A MAGNIFY LEARNING DESIGN DAYS WORKSHOP
https://www.magnifylearningin.org/design-days-sign-up
Some of the links above are affiliate links which means we get a small commission on anything you purchase using that link (at no more cost to you). As Amazon Associates, we earn from qualifying purcha
Hello Movement Makers. Welcome to the PBL Simplified Podcast. I'm your host, ryan Stoyer, and I'm honored to be able to bring you content every week to help you start or keep your PBL movement going, because your leadership matters to those you lead and to the communities that you serve. We want you to lead inspired, because everyone wins when the leader is inspired. Now, right now, we're in the middle of a long series where I'm breaking down case studies of PBL model schools and districts. That way, you can look at what's working, dissect it and see what works for you. As we evaluate the highlights of model schools, we're giving you a playlist to work from. You're going to be able to pick and choose what works for you. In last week's podcast episode, we looked at Neosho Schools case study.
Ryan Steuer:The coolest part, though, of this series that we're doing is not only do we look at the model schools. Then we go and we interview the movement makers that are in this work. We're talking with the dreamers. We're talking with the instigators. We're talking to the movement makers. Just like you, they have been presenting on PBL. They've been doing this work for years. They've been all over, they've been behind the scenes, they've been on the front lines. They're leading strong and being misunderstood at times, again, just like you, movement makers. So today we've got Assistant Superintendent Dr Nathan Manley with us, who, again, has been doing this work for a long time. Just like you, he's a movement maker. You're in the right spot, nathan. Thanks for joining us. How are things on your end?
Dr. Nathan Manley:They are fantastic. We're working hard to kick off another great school year for our staff and students and look forward to amazing things that we're going to accomplish.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, no doubt. As we're recording this, we've got the PBL Movement Conference happening at Neosho, missouri in Rise Elementary, your STEAM elementary that you guys launched in a ridiculously fantastic way. We had a waiting list for kids to get in. The community understood it, so it's really just kind of a it's a fun moment to be able to like have the conference there and have it in a great space. How excited are you about that Rise Elementary piece and how that went?
Dr. Nathan Manley:Oh yeah, we're very excited. It's what rises is one of those, those things that encompass what you believe in education and the possibilities, and so for us to be able to take that vision and put it in a space and watch it thrive and watch the amount of impact it has and support it has has been inspiring in and of itself and it makes an impact on the community it makes an impact on the students every day and the staff within there, but outside of that as well, creating a model for some pieces that we could start offering more and more in our education systems.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, it's super great work. We talked about last week in the episode as we looked at your case study of some of the work that was being done. So Rise Elementary is in would probably be considered a non-educational building right, a building downtown that you guys renovated and then absolutely made it a phenomenal place for innovation. So super cool. But let's talk about you, the movement maker. We want to dive into some of your thoughts here. You've got your PhD. You did your dissertation on PBL assessment and I kind of know this answer, but I want you to unpack it a little bit for the audience. So what did you find out with PBL assessment and your dissertation?
Dr. Nathan Manley:Yeah, so a little background. The original question that I was wanting to answer was the impact that PBL had on subgroup achievement, and it got into that a little bit, and the reason that that was the choice and that was the passion is really back when we hooked up. I think it's been 10 years ago now, right Something like that.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Yeah, it has been PBL and saw the impact that it had, while looking at some of the data from the schools that Magnify had been in place and watching some of those subgroup lines be much closer to the rest of the population and seeing that take place within our environments as well and essentially giving kids that wouldn't typically be our high flyers an opportunity to be successful. And we saw that. We saw kids that had labels of IEPs or free and reduced start to shine in different areas. So wanted to get a little bit uh, deeper with that and and why it works and, um, um, what else we can do.
Dr. Nathan Manley:As I went through the process of six years of my life, um, uh and my, my reflection on that is I really asked the wrong question. Like you get there and you're like, oh, you missed the point. And then what did you learn from that? It's essentially through it with that group and a not that group, but a slice in time, academic achievement did go up as measured on a standardized norm, referenced uh assessment. Um, did it go up a huge, significant amount? No, I think my hypothesis to continue that would be longitudinal. Uh, we would see a greater impact and we see that in the research as well. But if we are implementing project-based learning and real-world learning in an authentic learning experience and it's only about the assessment, then we've missed it.
Dr. Nathan Manley:And what makes people successful and students successful is not necessarily reflected in their assessment score. It's their ability to communicate, to critically think, to find answers. Um, you know, I like the. I think it's a mark twain quote where if we ask a goldfish to climb a tree, it'll always think it's dumb. And so understanding that we should give kids multiple different opportunities for mastery, to, to perform and and you know we have talked about this before students with IEPs in some of those environments and watching them shine because they have multiple ways, not just a traditional pencil paper, high stakes exam and them not feeling like I'm an IEP kid that day or in that environment and watching some of those things fall away.
Ryan Steuer:So that's kind of the piece of it.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, I think you, real early on, when we were doing any school visits at your school specifically, I think you did a great job of having student panels. They were super authentic, right? Adults could ask these kids whatever they wanted and then afterwards, after the kids leave, you'd ask the question like which one of those kids had an IEP? It was like, well, I don't know, they all spoke wonderfully, they all communicate, they could all talk about why they're in school and why they're in education. Like don't know, and definitely leveled the playing field. So six years of working on your dissertation and maybe the wrong question. So what do you think, as people are listening like and they're going to go do their dissertation at pbl somewhere, like, what do you think are some of the right questions that we should be asking?
Dr. Nathan Manley:um well, I, I think, I, I think I'd start with one of the studies that always gets me and becomes like an oh duh. Moment is I can't remember if it's Harvard or Stanford, but essentially, even with college students, what makes a successful college student, and who are the successful?
Dr. Nathan Manley:what's the largest correlations? And it's not their GPA, it's not their class rank, it's not their ACT as a predictor. It still comes down to their ability to critically think, perseverance, grit, all of those, those other skills, and so, um, if that's what makes them successful, then we should probably have more uh, more opportunities for that within our schools.
Dr. Nathan Manley:It's not that the others don't matter, because they do matter and they're always going to matter because they're part of the scoreboard but when we do the right work, those things take care of themselves. They also have a positive impact on the things that we're really struggling with in the school systems right now, whether it's wellness or trauma, or social media and all of the other pieces. So, starting probably with that and the impact it has there and then moving to the other pieces, yeah, I like that.
Ryan Steuer:And that has led you to some of the profile of graduate type work. And how do we, how do we start with some of that? Even though at least put it on the scoreboard, like you said right, like you can't just focus on one of those, but at least make sure that those critical thinking skills, communication, are on the scoreboard, those but at least make sure that those critical thinking skills, communication, are on the scoreboard.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Yeah, I think we've got a habit sometimes in education of taking those assessments and communicating that they're only a piece of the puzzle, and I think that's true. But I also think if you're not in education then you're wondering well, how do I know if my kid's successful, how do I know a first school system is successful? And so we have a responsibility of not just saying that's a piece of the puzzle, of saying like, well then, what's the puzzle? Look like, yeah, and, and you know, that's where, maybe that's where the profile of grad work comes in, maybe that's where some of the other is. Define the puzzle then.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, that's right Context. Yeah, Let our parents, let community know, right, it's always been about grades for the last hundred years, and maybe it's different, but we have to let people know what's on the scoreboard and what the puzzle looks like. I like that. So one of the questions that you and I have talked about that we haven't shared with the podcast audience is this idea of how PBL affects the life of a teacher, and I think that's an interesting question, right, because we're all working to create great outcomes for kids, and I think a part of that is how we're creating great outcomes for teachers. So, when you look at PBL over the years, as you've walked down this path and been on this journey, how does it affect the life of a teacher?
Dr. Nathan Manley:Oh yeah, I think that's a great meaningful question and conversation as well. A couple of pieces that it makes me think about is one of them answering the question and knowing, like talking to teachers about why you got into education, and I have yet to find a teacher that says they got into it so they could score high on a standardized test. It just hasn't happened yet. From a research standpoint as well, one of the things I found within my little review a great deal was.
Dr. Nathan Manley:It was difficult to find some of the assessment data research. One of the topics that kept coming up, though, is teacher perceptions and how they feel about pbl, and almost every study you look at is how much happier they were or how much more meaningful it was, or what it what it did for them. Daniel Pink also talks about. You know what makes someone happy in the workplace? The belonging, purpose and autonomy. Well, PBL gives you those things. You create belonging within your classroom, Autonomy.
Dr. Nathan Manley:As a teacher, you have a great deal, and the growth is there as well. From a personal standpoint, watching teachers thrive and grow in there is pretty amazing, and one example I like to talk about and this is actually at RISE. We have a very veteran teacher who has always been great. I think that person would say they leaned a lot towards traditional practices, or maybe we pushed them as an educational system, to use traditional practices more and more, as an educational system, to use traditional practices more and more. But once he was given this direction and also permission, because he would tell you I do projects At that point he probably did projects.
Ryan Steuer:It wasn't project-based learning man.
Dr. Nathan Manley:He has really thrived and we had that conversation in the fall and how happy he was and you know part of his message is one of the things I want to tell my teacher friends and why they should try this is I'm happier than I've ever been, I look forward to coming to work and my kids are doing more than they've ever done and that's pretty incredible to hear that, especially when we talk about teacher wellness and how important that is and just how important giving people purposes and, again with PBL, what that does right. We see a ton of engaging and motivating strategies given and sometimes we still have behavior problems or we still have this group that we feel like we might be missing. And I think when we look at PBL, and maybe one of those things that sets it apart as well for students who tend to thrive in those environments is when you give a problem that's connected to them or connected to their community you give purpose and you give them hope, like, oh, I can make a difference.
Dr. Nathan Manley:And they see it. They see it in a tangible, concrete way, and if it's within the community, they might see it big time. All those things are connected, they don't live independently, and I think they're very important.
Ryan Steuer:And I think they're on the student end. I think it's super important as well, like you mentioned, that you've got these different connections for kids to make right. They've given I call them handles. Right. You've got handles to figure out how to. Where does multiplication fit? Where does you know this science standard fit? That is totally like not in my world, like I have no background knowledge of this. So then when I can see it in my community, then it all starts to make sense.
Dr. Nathan Manley:So then when I can see it in my community, then it all starts to make sense. Yeah, and think about the pride they have to. Even you know a lot of students like that. How often do we give them the chance to meaningfully celebrate something with their family or their community? Or, you know, like we see them as something maybe less than sometimes, whether we mean to or not, they tend to lower expectations for them. But for them to be able to talk about those things with their family and let them know how proud and then their family to be able to take that and have that sense of pride as well, that's pretty big. That's pretty big. It's, that's pretty impactful, it's a great opportunity.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah it's a big deal. And even even we went right to student outcomes when we're talking about teacher outcomes, but cause? I think we overlooked this idea of you know. I actually started putting the intro of the podcast because I think part of my job is or at least it's my passion and purpose is to create inspired leaders, like to inspire leaders that give them permission to say, yes, you can go after this, yes, you can create purpose with your teachers in classrooms. And my hypothesis, I suppose, is that inspired leaders lead inspired teachers that inspire classrooms.
Ryan Steuer:Right, and I think your story about you know this teacher who maybe was being pushed to teach a little more traditionally than maybe he even wanted to, when given permission and inspiration, yes, he's happier. That's not our end goal, right, but you kept going like, yes, he's happier. And then amazing things happen in the classroom, and I think that that thesis is true. I think we walked that out. Our teachers are all inspired and excited to get in the classroom, excited to look at assessment and get community involved, and amazing things do happen in the classroom.
Dr. Nathan Manley:As leaders, I think one of the things that we have both said that we need to continue to emphasize is that word permission. We don't get a lot of pushback on.
Dr. Nathan Manley:PBL and authentic learning and I can't tell you how many times even being in the room and knowing like this is our vision, this is where they want. Sometimes they feel like they're doing something wrong in teaching this way and it's giving them permission all of the time, grace, it's OK to to fail, it's OK to try things. I mean, you know, let's, let's, as leaders again, let's give them the, let's give them the box to play in and innovate within this box. Hopefully, as a leader, you're not making it too rigid, but they need permission. They probably didn't go through a teacher program with PBO. This is new behaviors. We have wonderful teachers throughout our district, missouri and the country. Most of them were good students taught in a traditional classroom and these things worked for them. Not all of them went through a PBL environment and it's likely most of them didn't and they had success in that. And so this is a behavior change and permission and they need ongoing support.
Ryan Steuer:So you mentioned behavior change and change process right, Because this is a big shift in moving to project-based learning.
Ryan Steuer:And so I've been leaning on some research with the Heath brothers, specifically in their book Switch, and they talk about this idea of you have to find bright spots, these major marker of success during the change process specifically talk about this idea of you have to find bright spots, these, you know, major marker of success during the change process specifically. You know you can, you can try to fix some things, but you've really got to say, hey, this is the bright spot. These are things that are working in in change process specifically because it's such a long, there's emotions in it, there's a past thoughts and beliefs that we're trying to change and it's a big deal. It's not a small shift of like, hey, we're going to change the carpet, kind of thing. So, in this idea of finding bright spots, how do you look at that when you're looking at because you're leading lots of leaders that are then leading schools how do you look at this bright spot idea when you're looking at change process?
Dr. Nathan Manley:Yeah, I love the talk about the research with the change process and then really how our brains work as well as leaders. We often hear what gets measured, gets done, and I think that's true. So finding the right targets to measure which kind of goes back to my dissertation of measure the wrong thing should have measured the behaviors that we were looking for to support that, so they know what's right, what's wrong. But I think another piece that I would add to what gets measured, gets done is what gets celebrated, gets replicated, and that's the way our brains work as well. Um, I credit that I don't know where it came from. I am certain it did not come from me, uh, but uh, especially, I would say, um, uh, with teachers, we're rule followers, right, yeah, and so we are constantly and again, um, this is just a human thing. We are constantly scanning our environment for threats, and so we tend to look at things from this is wrong, this is wrong, what's wrong? We're often our own worst enemy, and so, keeping that in mind, as a leader, the part of your brain that does that can I don't have the name of it, but it's back here is the same part that is responsible for gratitude. Those two things cannot exist at the same time, and so when we flip that and we scan our world for the things that we want to replicate, the things that are going well so they can be replicated, it really turns that switch off. And again, that's a wellness strategy as well. That's why gratitude is so important.
Dr. Nathan Manley:And so, looking at those pieces and not looking as I need to fix this, I need to fix this, I need to fix that, that's great, it has a place. I'd say, probably do that 20% of the time and then have a plan for fixing that stuff. But just like we want in the classroom and just like good coaches do in sports what are the things going well and how are you going to celebrate that? Because when you do that, that makes that person feel good, but it also everybody else looks around. You've created a safe environment like oh, those are the behaviors that get rewarded, those are the things that we want. I'm going to do that no different than what good teachers do in the hallway Instead of getting on to the children constantly who can't line up well, who don't walk down the line well, pointing somebody out that is doing a great job, giving the others opportunity to fix their behavior in a positive way, instead of just.
Ryan Steuer:I'm worried about doing something wrong.
Dr. Nathan Manley:I'm worried about doing something wrong, so I think I think those things are always you and I are both, in that regard, geeks, but I think it's. It's cool. I think it's it's you know again whether it's wellbeing or the other piece that we can look at the world through whatever lens we want. I think this is a better lens, though, and I think this influences others better than some of the other environments.
Ryan Steuer:I think so Right, and the research backs that up, especially for you know the work that we're in, where we're looking at, you know, large institutional changes, right, and and behavioral changes in adults as well as kids, but it doesn't seem to be like the intuitive go-to right. It seems it's more like on the other end, where it's kind of a reprimand type piece or you know, like you said, measuring those things. I like the celebrate it turns into replicate. That makes a lot of sense. I like that idea. What are some practical things that you think leaders can, if they're going to start this process like, okay, like Ryan and Nathan, I get it, you know I need to start celebrating these things. How do they? How do they do that? What are some practical tips that you do with your leaders to say, hey, I really liked what's happening here, let's do more of that. How do you replicate these bright spots?
Dr. Nathan Manley:Um, well, I think you need to know where you're headed and what you're looking for and articulate that I don't think you do any of this work alone ever.
Ryan Steuer:That's so good. That's so good. We should say that again you shouldn't do any of this work alone ever. That's so good.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Nothing is. Nothing is in isolation. I mean again, pull out some research, look at Hattie's work in visible learning and collective teacher efficacy. Hey, that's no different than what the medical field does, or or, or. The good parts of the medical field they collaborate all the time. We want our doctors and nurses to collaborate with each other so they have the best diagnosis and the best treatment for every single patient. And we've built a profession traditionally that has a lot of isolation. We've community members or outside of you know what. You know the fortune of a grad is.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Another powerful piece is being able to go to a college or university or your chamber or local business and like, what are you looking for from our students?
Dr. Nathan Manley:You know we wanted to show up on time, we wanted to be this, this and this and and that's something to measure, that's something impactful and making sure you're intentional and deliberate about that piece and reflecting on that piece and giving everyone the opportunity to reflect, which is, you know, I was down at the pbl workshop yesterday and watching the facilitators give to the teachers reflection time and sometimes it feels, um, that needs to be practiced, like everything else, um, because again it goes back to permission, it's, it's on this edge of like am I giving too much time or not enough time? And understanding that we we learn through reflection. I think another piece is, if you want to create that environment and that culture, it shouldn't just come from you, and one of the things that we love to do whenever we collaborate together is giving everyone the opportunity to celebrate somebody else in the room. They should celebrate themselves, giving them the space like, hey, what's, what's something that you've tried, that you're learning, and celebrating those pieces, but then really really celebrate, like I saw so and so do this and I thought it was incredible being intentional about those pieces, writing them down, being visible all of the time which our great leaders are spending time with staff, spending time with students in those classrooms, in the hallway I know a lot of us do walking around with the post-it notes and just giving the encouragement of those behaviors I think is very important.
Ryan Steuer:Does that help. It's super practical too, because I think that's not always intuitive. I don't think, for you know, there's a lot of work to do, so some principals get stuck in their office, right, and then sometimes you get into a classroom and you say, well, I don't really know what I'm supposed to do here, right, and I well, that wasn't right. Should I correct that? I think we're saying, well, here's a different option. What if you had post notes in your hand and you just left a positive, bright spot? Hey, I love that you did this reflective activity with the kids. Just leave it in the back and you're showing what's important to you.
Ryan Steuer:But I also heard you say at the beginning of that was you need to know what's important to you, so you need to find those things. You need to have that vision, which I'm always preaching on the podcast and in any of our materials, is that the leader, like, part of your job, a big part of your job, is to have that vision and you don't do it alone, right, which is, again, don't do any of it alone. So get others involved, like, yes, your staff, but also you heard Nathan talk about, like I love the idea of community partners being involved in this. It's not just, hey, I'm the crazy leader and I've got this idea. It's, this is what our community is looking for. It's not just research from Stanford or Harvard.
Ryan Steuer:Literally, our local community partners are our leaders that are going to be hiring our students. This is what they're looking for. What do you guys think we should do about it? And now everybody's kind of leaning in and saying, hey, let's, let's, let's try to figure out how to measure this. And it's okay to say, hey, I'm not sure how to measure this yet. What do you guys think? How are we going to do that? And now you've got everybody trying to figure out how to measure some of these bright spots that we're looking for for our kids.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Well, I love what you said with that last part is the vulnerability as a leader to say, hey, I don't know how to measure this, how do we do that? And leader to say, hey, I don't know how to measure this, how do we do that? And and as leaders, sometimes we want to know all of the steps because we think that's the credible pieces. I need to know all about it, I need to be the expert before we can ever uh, implement this. And and that's not the purpose. Um and again, I should have the quote in front of me. But, uh, if, uh, ooh, I gotta look it up.
Ryan Steuer:Um, I up, I'll buy you some time, because it's probably not possible either. Right To know all the things to be able to move forward, cause there's so many variables that you do need to be vulnerable. And then you're showing your staff that it's okay to be vulnerable, it's okay to have a growth mindset, it's okay to ask good questions, and then we're all going to collectively find answers to these things. And as we do that, then we're inviting people into this bigger purpose, this bigger vision, and now it's just not you as the leader pulling people along. You've got people that are following and are moving the vision forward.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Absolutely Okay. So this quote, one of my favorites. Okay, so this quote one of my favorites, antoine de Saint-Exupéry I don't know how to say that. If you want to build a ship, don't drum up Gosh. This is a terrible graphic. Let's script it again. If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea and understand, as leader is like we're always like isn't this great, isn't this? And not in an inauthentic manner, but getting them to look for like, hey, we're going to go there, and everyone being a part of putting that together.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, it's such a big deal and to do that. So let me run this by you. I would claim that the visionary leader that needs to first get their thoughts together right, like what do I think the vision for a great school is? Maybe run that by, maybe some other administrators, maybe not, but then bring it to a leadership team and then bring the larger staff in. I think there's a lot of ways to do it. But how does the leader come up with this North Star, this vision, to get people excited about and get them moving in that direction?
Dr. Nathan Manley:I think what you're saying there is very important. One of the things you always preach is that. Why, too? One of the things you always preach is that why, too? You and I have talked about this before. You were a middle school teacher and you were looking at the academic achievement in your school and thinking that there must be a different way, and someone maybe questioned it a little bit. Maybe we should try this, because I don't think we can get any worse. There's something to that.
Ryan Steuer:You're spot on. We were in an F school and it's like, hey, I think we should do something different. No, that wouldn't be good for kids. I think we should try something.
Dr. Nathan Manley:And having this piece. I think that was one of your your first steps into this. Well, what is that why? And I think that was one of your first steps into this. What is that why? And I think that's important, as leaders and again, influence as well. I think it's the Heath brothers, again, the power of moments. Yeah, there's a chapter in there. It's one of my favorite chapters in any book I've ever read about.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Essentially, they were given toilets in third world countries and they didn't know how to use them or what was the purpose for them. And so you know, don't walk in just with I've got a solution to all of our problems, especially if they don't think they have any problems. And the other part is, sometimes that can be demeaning. We have to always honor the work. People are working very, very hard. Even if you don't think they're writing, they're working on the right work. So, just again, in education, we tend to give what we call here is toilets instead of and giving them a solution to a problem that didn't exist. So you should use this, you should use this, and we'd be like I don't, why am I using this? What's wrong with what I'm doing? And so so, being cognizant of of honoring the work, but then you know what are the issues. Maybe it's it's, maybe it's behavior, maybe it's student wellness, maybe it's staff wellness, maybe it's just not meeting the needs of the community, as you've had those conversations and those talks.
Dr. Nathan Manley:As you've had those conversations and those talks, maybe it's the vision of the district, whatever it is, having meaningful conversations about that and then providing some solutions hey, what about this? Or you've got some of those who are always are Norse. They're always looking for something different, and I'm a Norse, so, bless our hearts. Sometimes we can be annoying, but sending them out there into the world to you know, go see it somewhere else. What else is? What else is out there that that helps with some of our resistors as well, because it's it's not necessarily that there are just resisting to resisting one.
Dr. Nathan Manley:We've probably given them a thousand initiatives, and for them it's this, too shall pass. The other is, sometimes they just need to see it, and I think that's the hardest part of PBL is I can be passionate about it. We can talk about all of the reasons why it's great. The best thing I could tell you to do, though, is to go talk to the kids, and when you hear the kids talk or you watch the kids, you see something different, and that is. There's not a greater influence than watching that.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, that's good, because I think and I'll advocate this too again and again and again is to go visit, go see a site I'd love to have people come out to, to go visit your work out there. Nathan, what if somebody's going to come see your work like who do you think should come see, like neosho school specifically, like maybe size of school or like maybe mindset, like who do you think's the right person to come and and see maybe the beginning of the journey middle? What do you think?
Dr. Nathan Manley:oh, for us, um, you know we've done a lot of great work. We still got a lot of ways to go. Um, we use the the word raggedy here a lot. We're not, we're not afraid to be raggedy, um, and so I mean I would invite anyone. It certainly you're not going to walk in and see a finished product. I don't know when it's ever going to be finished, though. So, um, I, I think, as you come in, we're always, you know, we're always even looking for feedback.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Come visit us, uh, because, I mean, it comes from a place of like. We want this, we want this to spread because it's been impactful, and we want to create a space where others can come see it in practice and feel like it's something that they can do and understand our journey. And you're going to see some that 100%, that got it. They've been doing it for 10 or 15 years. Hopefully, they still have a growth mindset and you're going to be. You're going to see some. They're like oh well, this is year one or this is year two, and being able to relate. I mean even myself and the leaders within the building. We're constantly learning, which is why the academy goes on right now. It's how do we improve that process?
Ryan Steuer:Well, it's so good Cause I think what you just displayed there, nathan, is the authenticity of a real movement maker. Right Like you, you can't really do this work. I don't think you can do that. I haven't seen it. At least where it's like. I have the answer. I'm going to bring it, I'm going to save you. Right Like that. I haven't yet to interact with a great leader that has brought this work in authentically and had it last. Right Like we're.
Ryan Steuer:It's really about sustainability. I don't want you to come and rock some test scores for two years, move on and things fall apart. So I think I would add to you know a listener should come to Neo Show to see if you've got you know if you want to bring a steam elementary into a district. I think you guys did that masterfully. It's really really well done. As far as communication and, again, authenticity through everything from administrator to teacher to parents to students, was done really well. I I love the idea of people coming to give you guys feedback. I think that's really authentic and pure.
Ryan Steuer:So I think any school, whether you're starting out or whether you're in the middle I think you've got a great collaborator with Neosho schools. So you know if you're listening and you want to, you want to reach out, you know. Just, just let me know and just reach out to us. You can always do that at pblsharecom. That's pblsharecom and we'll connect with you there and you can do your design days at Neosho schools. Like you can start to figure out what your PBL movement is going to look like while you're in the middle of a PBL movement and maybe that's a good wording, Nathan is. It's a movement, so it's always going right. It's always moving Although I like raggedy too Like we're going to try some things and then mold them to work right. Like you guys are also striving for excellence. I see that every day. So any parting words for for leaders that may be just getting started on this journey.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Um, hmm, you know, I think a few pieces, but one of them is don't be afraid to take that step. And also understanding. It sounds like rainbow and sunshine, but there is a structure to it and that's powerful as well. To give yourself grace, but to understand it is a lot of work and it's a behavior change for a lot of us. I cannot stress the networking enough, because it's not. You know, if PBL existed in 80% our schools, it would. It would be a lot easier, but it doesn't at this point. And so finding other like-minded people, um, that you can connect with, like orion or or whoever, that that we're blessed with, um, because you're going to think you're crazy at times and you're going to feel the you know, like maybe I give up, or maybe it's too hard, or maybe I don't want to do it anymore, and having people that can encourage you, so you know you're not the only crazy one out there, and to be patient and to do it with, I mean enjoy it. Most important step is the first step.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, that's so good. It reminds me 10 years ago you put a bunch of administrators into a minivan and came out to model school in Columbus, indiana, and started a movement and you've done some amazing work. My friend and I think patience and joy and authenticity has definitely been some things that you've taken on the journey, so I appreciate it. Thanks for sharing. On the podcast today.
Dr. Nathan Manley:Appreciate you and the influence you have had on that, on that journey as well, and your friendship along the way is awesome, a hundred percent.
Ryan Steuer:Hey, podcast listeners, thank you for tuning in today. Again, you in this series, you're getting a case study on the school or the district and you also get to hear from the movement maker. If you've got follow-up questions for Nathan specifically, you can go to pblsharecom, pblsharecom and we'll get those to you. I'll reach out to Nathan. He can answer those directly. Next week we've got a case study. It's going to be a little bit different. Next week is going to be a charter school K-12. And it's an amazing ecosystem of PBL started as just elementary has now grown to K-12. Again, we're going to talk the case study next week and just elementary has now grown to K-12. Again, we're going to talk the case study next week and the week after we'll talk to that movement maker.
Ryan Steuer:Thanks for tuning in your leadership matters. Stay inspired, lead inspired. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the PBL Simplified Podcast. I appreciate you and honor that you tune in each week. Would you please take two minutes to leave a rating and a review? When for leaving a review? Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate you.
