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PBL Simplified by Magnify Learning
PBL Model District - Large District - Movement Maker Interview: Ashley Curtin | E196
What if empowering third graders with Project Based Learning (PBL) could lead to real-world changes in your community? Join us for a conversation with district coach Ashley Curtin, who shares how Calvert County Schools in Maryland used PBL to increase student engagement. Learn about their innovative start with Social Studies and the pivotal role of supportive leadership. Ashley also reveals how her adventurous summer underscores the necessity for educators to balance work with rest, ultimately fueling their passion and effectiveness in the classroom.
Prepare to be inspired by the remarkable efforts of third graders who took on a peer advocacy project to reduce single-use plastics. These young changemakers crafted PSAs, designed compelling posters, and conducted household self-studies to spread awareness. Their initiative didn't stop there—they launched a letter-writing campaign advocating for more water bottle filling stations in their schools. This chapter showcases the power of authentic, localized projects and the collaborative spirit among teachers, gifted and talented specialists, and technology integration specialists, proving that even the youngest students can make a significant impact with the right support.
Discover the strategies behind sustaining and promoting PBL in a school district, even when initial grant funding runs out. Ashley and I discuss the creative adjustments made to keep professional development ongoing and effective, and how meeting teachers where they are in their PBL journey is crucial. From using infographics to gain support to fostering a culture of continuous improvement, we cover actionable insights for educators and administrators. Listen in to learn how Calvert County Schools are creating structures that not only support, but also expand PBL practices, driving personal and professional growth among teachers and students alike.
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All right Movement Makers, welcome to PBL Simplified Podcast. I'm your host, ryan Stoyer, cio of Magnify Learning, and we're in a series right now where we're highlighting model PBL implementation. So if you are looking to implement PBL at your school or your district, this is absolutely the series for you. You should go several episodes back and you should make sure that you're subscribed so you can get the episodes that are upcoming, as well as the one today. So there are a lot of ways to implement PBL like a lot of ways. None of them are going to be perfect for you, but the whole idea of this series is that we can share the highlights of different models that you can see where you might get started. So we're going to continue to share implementation models of small districts, large districts, schools, and then we're going to bring you the movement maker that gets these things started. Now, last week, we broke down some of the highlights of a PBL district implementation at a large district in Maryland, so you get some context, and today we're talking with one of the PBL movement makers responsible for making that movement happen, which is super exciting. So you got to hear a little bit of context and now you get to talk to Ashley about it. So let's talk. Let me set the stage again just a little bit. So Ashley's a district coach at Calvert County Schools in Maryland and they didn't start with one school but they started with a subject area social studies which I think is a really interesting implementation model, right? So there are so many different ways to implement PBL because people will say, hey, ryan, what's the best way to implement? It's like that answer I cannot give you, right, like we've got to talk a lot to get your context, like to figure this stuff out. So in Calvert County they had a very, very supportive director at central office. Scott McComb is a strong, humble, innovative leader and he supports this work. Now, listen to the wording I'm going to use he supports the work, he doesn't just tolerate it. Right, there's a huge difference between a leader saying, yeah, you can go ahead and do PBL, I guess, versus supporting the work. It's so different.
Ryan Steuer:So the initial push of their work was to increase student engagement and had a couple different initiatives for that. Ashley will give us some background on that. But the PBL side of this, for the student engagement, it's spreading across the district and it's not just stuck in social studies, right, it's in other subject areas and in a lot of amazing ways, and when I say amazing, I mean authentic, real world PBL that we love, that has learners doing work that really, really matters. So that's enough of your context. There's some more in the last episode. We're going to get more today with Ashley, because we have a PBL movement maker on the podcast. Ashley Curtin is a district coach in Calvert County, so she's in the middle of this work. She's the perfect person to have on the podcast today. Ashley, thank you for joining us.
Ashley Curtin:Thank you for having me, Ryan. I'm really excited to be here.
Ryan Steuer:How's your summer? Like when you're getting ready, you're going to have to go back, like you can see it in the distance. You're on the East Coast, so you've got a little bit of time, but how was your summer? Did you get some rest?
Ashley Curtin:Yeah, my summer was great, Busy. We're very adventurous folks and, due to my schedule and my husband's schedule, we very similar in terms of our love of the outdoors and adventure, so we've done a lot of that, in fact. In July we hit all three continents of North America in a couple of weeks just by virtue of a Mexico trip coming home, and then a camping trip that led us into Canada to Niagara Falls and that sort of thing. So it's been a whirlwind, as always, but we try to soak up every moment that we can.
Ryan Steuer:So good, so good. Right, your, your family's very adventurous. We were kind of geeking out about Acadia before. We kind of hit play so exciting. But it's also a question I want to hit our movement makers that are listening with, because summer is important Like you need to get rest. Like, yes, you need to learn and, yes, a lot of PD happens, but you also need time to rest, because you have to serve from a full cup. So you've got to fill up your own cup so you can fill up others. So that could be a whole podcast episode on its own. Maybe we'll do that, maybe you should come back and we'll just talk about adventure and like filling your cup. That'd be awesome.
Ashley Curtin:I love that.
Ryan Steuer:Right, but today we've got to dive into PBL, or we get to dive into PBL, which is exciting. So let's start with just. My question is is give us one PBL, but I think you're gonna give us more than one, and I love the work happening in Calvert because it's so authentic and it's been authentic from like day one. You guys have crushed it. So can you give us a few examples of PBL that's happening in your world?
Ashley Curtin:Yeah, yeah. So when you said to kind of think about a unit, it's really hard for me to think of just one because, as you said, there've been so many great things happening in Calvert at all levels and in all areas but I can speak to a few and then I'll kind of dig into one that I use as sort of a flagship example. So this year we expanded, as you kind of mentioned, so we have really gone outside the scope of secondary and social studies. That was really our focus at first, just by nature of the vision that, as you mentioned Scott McComb that he had when he wrote in a grant to kind of get this work started and thankfully I was fortunate enough to be brought on board in that work. So this year we kind of delved outside of social studies. And there's there's two examples. One is science oriented.
Ashley Curtin:Eighth grade, middle school, we had a great example of a science teacher who was just she's a true creative. So she was all in from the get-go and you know I kind of helped her get some guardrails on that. But she identified in her curriculum an area where they talk about fossil identifications, specifically shark tooth identification, which really ties closely to the history and heritage of our region. Specifically, we're near the Chesapeake Bay, so there's a lot of scientific, historical ties there and why that's a part of our curriculum. And one of the things that she saw was a need for access to information at our public beaches, and so she sort of posed this problem to her students about when people peruse the local Calvert beaches through the parks and rec system and they find shark teeth, because that happens all the time here, believe it or not. There's not a quick and easy way for people to really know what they have in their hands. And so that really married perfectly to her unit. And she challenged her kids to work in groups and they devised websites that not only provided context, incorporated the geological history, the environmental history, shark tooth identification itself and specific species of sharks that would be in the area. All that was kind of built out in these student designed websites. Now she incorporated our technology integration specialist to really help with that skills piece of website design and we used Google sites, I believe. So that was really neat to see.
Ashley Curtin:And then that wasn't just it, you know, it wasn't this theoretical thing like hey, what if you taught that? You told Parks and Rec, you made this thing. No, they went further. They partnered with Parks and Rec from the get go and the Parks and Rec came in with kind of their aspect of the problem and they would like this as well. And they work towards a public presentation to leadership and Parks and Rec director to show off the websites that they created in their various groups and then also pose the idea of creating an accessible, weatherproof QR code that would be posted at the public beaches. That would take beachgoers right to these websites that the kids have designed to identify their shark teeth while they're there.
Ashley Curtin:So they posed all these ideas. Parks and Rec director was very supportive and enthusiastic about hearing them and then she selected, took it back to her team and selected the best site, and they're actually in the process right now of figuring out, you know, how to best post those QR codes. Does it need to go on like a piece of sheet metal or you know? Whatever Parks and Rec decides, they're going to do that end Right, but it's going to be really cool for those eighth graders when their teacher can come back to them and say hey, look, you know. Second periods winning design was was developed into a QR code that is now at the North Beach Access or, you know, wherever else. So it was a really cool way for kids to take what they're learning that's a part of their curriculum and not just theorize about it or, you know, simulate what it would be like to apply that and to impact others in their community but to actually do it Right.
Ashley Curtin:So that was a really cool one. There's one other one I will mention, cause I know I could go on forever Another project. This was actually at the elementary level, it was third grade. It started as a science kind of theme but really ballooned out of that because Barbara, our third grade teacher, she's just brilliant anyway. So she took this idea of we have a lot of environmental curriculum where we have several schools that are certified like green schools.
Ashley Curtin:Calvert does an amazing job with environmental conservation and education and incorporating that at all levels in our district. So she took her third grade standards and curriculum around environmental conservation and impact. Specifically she was looking at single use plastic and impact on the environment and certain species Terrapin sort of turtles are a big part of the third grade curriculum. So she kind of looked at how could she take like what we traditionally do and go further with that, like, oh, it doesn't just impact the turtles, it impacts our entire environment and what can we do about it?
Ashley Curtin:And so this became more than just a science project because it became a longer thematic project which has worked really well for a lot of our teachers at all levels, not just these self-contained PBL units that kind of okay, we have this unit curriculum, let's tie it directly to a PBL and assess and then you know, come up with a public product that is or is not impactful and then let's move on to another PBL. No, this was kind of taking those PBL principles and really stretching it out and infusing it as this journey continued throughout the year, not just the six weeks or the semester or you know whatever various time unit you're using. So they did a number of things. She infused these skills of peer advocacy and raising awareness among their peers. So they did things like record PSAs for this student video news, which was a big deal because usually that's fifth graders, not third graders, at their school.
Ryan Steuer:Those things are big deals, aren't they?
Ashley Curtin:And they also had posters they created about single-use plastic and its impact on the environment. They did some self-studies on how much their households use single-use plastic, so they raised awareness at home. They had a slogan contest for reducing single-use plastic and recycling and conservation, how all that works together among their entire student population. So a lot of these kids were not even exposed to this curriculum yet, or had already been exposed right, and actually the slogan winner was not in this class, it was another third grader, though, so they were very proud of that. Another thing that she did was beyond the peer advocacy piece, and this is where it really moved outside of science standards. They did a letter writing campaign. So they wrote to various district leadership persuasive letters talking about what they've already learned foundationally about single-use plastic, their concern over it and how they would like to address it and propose a solution within their building. And the solution they arrived at was installing at least one more water bottle filling station, because there's only one in their building right now. So they thought that was a really appropriate thing to tackle for their age group, for their population, as a way to have an immediate impact on the single use plastic use in their immediate community, meaning their building Right, and I think that's another part of this piece about authenticity is that it's not just like the huge wider community or even like a regional or national impact that you have to have. It doesn't have to be something grand. Your community can be your classroom, your community can be your school and for a lot of, I think, elementary projects that's a really good access point. So I commend her on really seeing that.
Ashley Curtin:And so these letters went out not only to district leaders but to their building admin and then to other support people within the community, like in our county government, waste management, those sorts of things, just different avenues where they could appeal to people. And then they culminated with a public presentation of their advocacy for the bottle filling stations. And they had small working groups. And it's really interesting because although they all had similar justifications, the way they went about really providing evidence for those justifications was very different. So some groups really focused in on the loss of instructional time. There's one bottle filling station in our building but guess what? It takes pre-cares X amount of time, because we measured the amount of steps and I oh, by the way, we were using our third grade steps, so it was probably more when you think about a pre-care shorter length, you know just those sorts of little creative things, Right, but then others were focusing on you know, just those sorts of little creative things, Right, but then others were focusing on.
Ashley Curtin:You know, this is a safety concern. There's a long line, People are rushing and they're spilling at the one bottle filling station that we do have. So we interviewed the custodians and we talked about the impact this would have if you know there were more stations that it would. It would maybe hopefully lead to less mess. So they all had these different approaches and we're talking about third graders.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, that's right. That's what I keep thinking about third graders making huge difference, whether not even a huge like an inappropriate, like physical difference they're going to be able to point to, like that new filling station is there because I was a part of this project, right, and we advocated for this.
Ashley Curtin:Right and just their approaches were. So I think what we typically think of as adult Right, Like they're looking at things that matter to the adults, like instructional time safety.
Ashley Curtin:Yeah, and they're interviewing those people involved, they're coming up with metrics Right To justify that. And so you know, when people say, oh, I don't think PBL can work in kindergarten or the lower grades, no, that's not the case, you know. It really is about what you allow your students to explore, and if you don't cage them, there's no telling where they're going to go, which is really exciting. So that's the kind of stuff that really continues to inspire me and sustain me in this work.
Ashley Curtin:And I think one of the keys that's successful in both of these examples and we'll kind of get to this later is this idea of, you know, the teacher not really relinquishing control, because there's still some clear design and planning, but giving some of that control over to the students but then also welcoming other adults in the building into this process, not only of implementation or supporting students, but of design and planning as well.
Ashley Curtin:So when I talk about that third grade example, she worked very closely with our gifted and talented specialists in her building to think about how could they provide unique and diverse opportunities to everyone in the classroom, not just, you know, one in any sort of spectrum that you may want to go with. But then she also worked really closely with her technology integration specialists and then also with me, and all those different voices and perspectives led to a layered and rich project that that allowed kids to really find their own way, not just two lanes of choice, right, so yeah, so I think that's a really key aspect to you know, really allowing PBL to go where it needs to go.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, yeah, there's definitely some. You know, Trevor McKenzie would call that open inquiry side right.
Ryan Steuer:Where you know they're, they're really learning to swim on their own. You know in in kind of his analogy and but there's still guardrails, right, like, and I love that you mentioned in one of your examples at least, that you know you helped even the teacher have guardrails, so the teacher can dream right, and then you can kind of come in as a coach and say, okay, well, we need to make this happen right Within a four week period, right, or whatever the case may be for that PBL unit. But you know, as I'm kind of taking notes and hopefully everybody listening is taking notes unless you're running or driving, but like the empowerment and the real world aspect to you know your examples is one of the reasons that I've it's been like this from the beginning. So you guys have always had a really authentic field to your PPL units.
Ryan Steuer:You know you're you're pushing back on scenarios because you see the value of the authentic end product. Like kids can point when they go to the beach, they can point to that QR code and be like yep, my class did that and I think it's one of the big strengths of of your movement there at Calvert. So, but how have you been able to do that, like, as people are listening, like we, that's some of the what right, that's some of the what that's happening right and it's inspiring and it's amazing, and people that are listening are like yes, I want that, like in the authentic realm, like how do you keep the PBLs authentic throughout the district?
Ashley Curtin:Yeah, so authenticity. I think really one of the linchpins that we figured out really early on in implementation for the district wide approach is community partners are key, right, and it's not. And it's really a willingness and an openness to think about community partners differently. Right, because I would say some people say, well, I already have community partners. You know, I bring in guest speakers all the time. We're not just talking about guest speakers, right. Yes, there may be within a PBL unit room and need for a guest speaker to impart knowledge. Right, or to impart a skill, right, but guest speakers can be so much more. They can be your thought partners before you ever bring students into the picture. Right, they can be your intended audience or intended, I guess, adopter of whatever design or idea a student comes up with. Right, they can be someone who you want to amplify a message. They can come in as sounding boards for your students during the design process. And the more you can tap into a community partner in those different ways, in a sustained way, not just having them come once, but they become so invested in the projects too and in the students, right, and you see their willingness and interest grow in becoming a part of future endeavors, and so it really allows you to not only have this contact list of people that you invite in once a year but to really establish a rich network of other partners who are involved in it becomes community education. I really do, I feel very strongly about that. So that is definitely one key. And one thing that has helped with that is the approach that we have in terms of our structure to our program in our district. Having a coordinated effort and really by coordination I mean having a person to coordinate those efforts, which is me in this case and that came out of Scott's vision for this professional development pathway is having a lead who could help coordinate the PD learning for folks, sustain that and make it ongoing. But then also to be that thought partner, that constant that someone can reach out to and bounce ideas off of or seek help. And with community partnerships, that's really one big aspect that I function as a thought partner in.
Ashley Curtin:I sometimes someone's like you know I really need a partner. I'm thinking about you know how can I for example, I had an aerospace engineering teacher at a high school last year said I really want to do something to challenge my kids to explore current research on space junk. I need some community partners. I don't even know where to start right.
Ashley Curtin:Well, I went down a rabbit hole and found people in the international community that are doing really deep research on mitigating space junk and I just aimed for the sky and I literally, no pun intended, reached out to them and you know it led to a content expert pushing into her classroom virtually mostly because they were a renowned scientist at the University of Surrey in the UK who helps chair the International Space Consortium on Space Junk, and this guy has been working for decades on how to mitigate space junk and the issues there. So just sitting in on that, I learned a lot about satellites and it's really cool technology. But for the kids to have access to someone like that when they're in that design process and thinking about their ideas and he offered to continue to be a thought partner via email communication and that sort of thing, so that that stuff like just really not and you know we're talking about guardrails again, not putting limits on the relationships you can build and the connections you can make for your kids I think that's huge.
Ryan Steuer:Well, it's such a big deal, and one of the many reasons I'm excited to have you on the podcast is I think there are districts and schools out there that have some kind of a district coach. I actually just asked a couple of weeks ago, like are people doing, you know, like STEM coaches and? And the answer is yes, but they don't always know what to do with them, Right.
Ryan Steuer:It's like we know we need more STEM, we know we need some organization. So I love this idea that you know you're you're helping classroom teachers connect with you know that's a super cool community partner. I'm like I'm a little jealous that you like didn't tag me into that zoom call, you know it's like. But and I also want to know, like you guys are like a large district, a large public district, like you have normal teenagers in that high school classroom right that are talking to renowned experts at this point, like how cool is that? Like that's that's game changing, life changing education. Like that's what we're here for.
Ryan Steuer:And I love your position, like I love Scott's vision that, hey, what if there was a person right, an expert, who can connect all these different, all these different initiatives? And that's another piece you guys have really high quality PBL going across multiple schools. Right, you don't have just a STEM school, which is fine, that's great. It's a different model. But, like in your guys' model, you've got PBL across different schools. That's pretty unique, I think. I think people are interested in that. How do you kind of maybe strategically or process system-wise, like how do you, again, keep the PPL authentic across different schools?
Ashley Curtin:Well, one of the things that has really allowed for that to happen is Scott's vision, when he wrote in for a grant that just happened to be kind of a part of a larger grant happening in our state at the time to really really the function of that grant, I think the intention that the state had was for districts to try out innovative things, because there's going to be some metrics and some goals that the state has down the line in the next five, 10 years that are innovative, that are progressive, that we need to set ourselves up, our systems up for that work to be able to happen, up our systems up for that work to be able to happen and and I think we see this across the nation there's too many things that are antiquated about our current structures in education Right. So that was Scott's thinking and he really designed an opportunity for ongoing sustained professional development support and coordinated.
Ryan Steuer:Hold on, ashley, I need you to say that again.
Ryan Steuer:Right, because, like Stanford, has some research around the number of hours that you need for PD to actually stick all the time. Hey, can I do a one day learn PBL? Nope, you sure can't. Right, like it doesn't work that way. So can you say that again? I don't know if you can say the exact words again, but but give us that idea again, like what was Scott's vision of the PD side of this Cause. If you so, I've got to tee it up again. If you want to do PBL and you just say, like you can go get my book, I would appreciate it. Right, and people love you. Get the book, do the book study. That's not sustained PD, though, right that is not the same.
Ryan Steuer:Like you do not have a district movement at that point that's a start. Like maybe it's an ignition point, so can you just hit that one more time.
Ashley Curtin:Yeah, so, and I'll. I'll actually throw in a term I didn't use before sustained or ongoing job embedded, Okay. Okay, so I didn't mention that before, but, uh, the grant allowed us to provide ongoing support that did not take out of contractional time. So that wasn't something we could continue because the grant fell away and the funding for using subs in that capacity is no longer there. But we've pivoted.
Ashley Curtin:But at the time, what it did? It allowed us to have monthly support meetings where teachers came outside the classroom to the central office or location that was convenient and went through some PD and collaborative time with their peers that were in the cohort, but also with me. And you know we still tapped into you guys for some panel discussions, for some expert coaching, because I'm not an elementary teacher and I had elementary teachers in my cohort, so it was nice to be able to allow for that connection with my elementary teachers. Or, like I'm not a math teacher, so for my math teacher to talk to a math teacher within the magnify network, right, and get some ideas about. You know, what does PBL really look like in AP, whatever it was, calculus, I'm not sure, but you know. So that time alone, which I know not everybody has the capacity to do that, but if there are creative ways that you can use PD time you already have in your calendar to carve out some specific designated time for PBLers, I mean that would be amazing, right.
Ashley Curtin:And then also for me to continue to be someone, because I'm in a designated role, to continue to be something they can access outside of those support meetings, too. Just send me an email. We set up something over their prep time. Someone, because I'm in a designated role, to continue to be something they can access outside of those support meetings, to just send me an email. We set up something over their prep time, or I come in over their prep, I come home and have a working lunch with them, whatever it is. Having that access to support, you know, at any time. That was huge. For. And the other thing I do want to mention and I know we'll probably get to this later I think one of the things that really made our program successful, too, is not only this access to sustained support and kind of, you know, giving little nuggets to people to push them along in the process or the implementation, or at least adopting a cultural shift, right a cultural shift right.
Ashley Curtin:The other thing is that, you know, we really met people where they were and sometimes that was a continuum of even understanding PBL. Sometimes that was a continuum of adoption in terms of their thinking, and then some of it was what's their comfort level with actual implementation, and we didn't really push anyone beyond that. Uh, I met people where they were and there was no judgment, there was no evaluative tie to this, and I think that was huge. Um, we actually we had people who were encouraged as uh, hey, I think you'd be a great fit for exploring this PD pathway, but nobody was even voluntold, which we know that happens a lot and I think that was a huge, huge piece as to why we have been successful in our continuing to grow.
Ryan Steuer:Right, yeah. So you guys grew with those first followers and like that early majority that said, hey, this is a path I would like to explore. Then you also had supports for them. I want to go back just a little bit, because you use some wording that I've used in the past of like hey I know you might not have time for this and I'm going to push back on that Like you guys didn't have these things in place until you did them Right. And so, like kind of Scott had the vision and input these things it's not like you had PBL time just sitting there and you weren't using it.
Ryan Steuer:Like there are structures that need to be in place at a district and school level for this work to be successful. And I liked that. You guys, you pushed us organizationally of like, how do we best coach that? Right, cause it's an implementation model that you don't see a lot At least, you don't see it be successful a lot, honestly, right. So when you guys came, it was like okay, like, let's be collaborative through this, cause a lot of times this doesn't work well. But you guys had the structures in place, the core thinking at central office level, at district coach level, to say, hey, sustained PD is what people need in order to grow, and we're also going to allow them to collaborate right Like we. We want our adults to clap. We want our kids to collaborate, but a lot of times we don't trust adults to do that.
Ashley Curtin:Right, it's like.
Ryan Steuer:So we've got to trust the adults to do that as well. So love this systemic piece that's in your movement as well. But I'm also going to guess like it's not all roses and cotton candy, right? So there were probably a few unexpected things that happened. How did you guys? Can you give us an example of maybe how you guys are overcoming it or working to overcome it?
Ashley Curtin:Yeah.
Ashley Curtin:So one of the biggest things that really comes to mind is you know, you mentioned Scott as being this key supporter you know, not just tolerator right at the district level, and we did have a few other content supervisors who were like, yeah, this sounds great and they were kind of a part of our leadership team, but they weren't really as invested as Scott and myself.
Ashley Curtin:So that became more of us updating them just because they had people in the program, right, but they were supportive in that they would tell our successes and be a sounding board for ideas on how to move the program forward. But that was only a small number of people when you look at our district leadership right, and even our building admins were not all on board and I think some of the biggest hurdles to that was just a lack of understanding of what PBL is. And so I know that's something you guys have talked about and are doing and are growing is this kind of PBL PD for leaders, right For decision makers. That won't necessarily be implementation of a PBL in the classroom, but it is a way to really shift the culture right.
Ryan Steuer:Just a quick. Just a quick note and I'll let you keep going. Is you know? You mentioned kind of the secondary directors and maybe some building principles that aren't fully on board yet. Like that's totally appropriate for them too, right, right, because they haven't necessarily been exposed to it. Like they do need to guard their staff right and their areas. You can't just innovate with every new thing that comes by, right. So in that, that's not a knock on those leaders at all, it's just totally appropriate for their position. And then it's our job then to say, hey, here's where it's working, here's where we think you can tie in, right. So how did you kind of navigate some of this?
Ashley Curtin:Yeah, so that's exactly what we did. You know we continue to talk about the impact our program was having for those who were involved in it and the student impact, right. So those are things we touted. Infographics are still all the rage. That's.
Ashley Curtin:One thing I do twice a year is an impact infographic on the program how many teachers are we impacting and in what areas? What content areas? How many students are we impacting and how are we growing our community partner network and what are the cross-industry connections that are happening there, right? So that's something that I put out there as a visual and a talking piece. Another way we do that is we continue, no matter how many times we have to ask for some, right, we continue to invite people into these projects, into the classrooms, to see what's happening and, like I know you don't understand it. Come see what it looks like, come see how I feel, right. Come to our public events that teachers are putting out there, and you know we've gone so far as to allow students to make those invites to those, because it's a lot harder to say no to a student than it is a teacher.
Ryan Steuer:Right, that's right.
Ashley Curtin:And we know people have really, really full plates right. So we know that it's not for lack of interest in some cases, but that has been huge. Because one thing that has really helped us crack that a little bit is we had a couple board members on our school board who come to those things. They love to be invited into the schools and into the classrooms and a lot of times PBL public presentations or events that were happening along in the process that was one of the only ways for them to come to the school. So we just kept inviting and we had a couple of people who were steadfast and showed up and they actually became our biggest cheerleaders because they were seeing it. They were seeing the impact.
Ashley Curtin:It wasn't just this fly by, like oh, this is a photo op for me, it was really coming in and understanding what was happening and seeing the transformation, seeing the passion in the kids right, and feeling a PBL classroom and that energy and that excitement right. So those are things that have worked well for us and that we continue to do. And you know, one thing we were always up against is the grant that we started this program under was a two-year grant. That was it. That's all the state was allowing, right. So we were always in this. You know how are we going to sustain this work? And we thought about that in a number of ways, like we really truly wanted this to be systemic.
Ashley Curtin:So you know, before we knew what our best case scenario could be and if it would happen, would be that it would be adopted systemically right In some way shape or form and thankfully we have convinced or at least made enough of a name for ourselves that people noticed and we were able to kind of move the program under a different funding avenue and we are going to continue to sustain the work and coordinate the program that way, kind of under a career technical education umbrella now, because it's I mean, it's a perfect fit PBL and you know, career and technology education is a great fit.
Ashley Curtin:But it allows me to continue to grow the work outside of that umbrella because we have another great supporter in our CTE leader that she sees the value of this work, whether it's just for her people or for everyone, right, so she's going to allow me to continue to coordinate and support people outside of CTE but grow it within that capacity as well. So best case scenario did happen. But before that we were really thinking, ok, this grant is ending, like, what are we going to do? And one of the things that we realized was we have people who went through this pathway who are PBLers for life.
Ryan Steuer:Now it changed their whole outlook on education.
Ashley Curtin:I mean I had a seventh grade teacher tell me before I joined this I was seriously thinking about quitting education. Pbl saved me. I mean, that's like huge. It gives me goosebumps, right. And I saw it in her classroom and she was a great teacher before. Don't get me wrong, it's not like you know. She's someone who I would have said, well, maybe this isn't for you.
Ashley Curtin:So to know that people have embraced it and not everyone, because you know we met people where they were on that continuum, but we've had enough people that have embraced it and who have signed on for second level of training. They've gone through your advanced training and now we have some people who are even. We have one and a handful of others already on their way to being certified through Magnify's program. And you know we found we need to tap into those people, right, no-transcript. So we've done some really deep work this summer on what mechanisms, what structures do we need to have in place to support that type of growth, and that'll be something now that I can continue to coordinate and push forward and say, hey, remember in June when we met about this, we talked really specifically about this structure. How's that going to look in your school now and how can I help support that and stand that up? So we've been really fortunate in that.
Ryan Steuer:Well, fortunate in you, you, you all, created a lot of your fortune. I think, right, like within your model, you're constantly thinking of sustainability yes, so important. Right, like we were doing a disservice if we're doing a different initiative every three years. Right, and that's a magnified learning. That's one of our pillars is we want, you know, the schools that we partner with to be self-sustaining. That's our whole goal.
Ryan Steuer:I think one of the things that's also been interesting in your implementation model, at least from our end, is that we're doing in-person training with your folks, with Jumpstart, advanced and Certification, but our coaching has been more working with you and the sustainability in the back end.
Ryan Steuer:Rather, we're not really coaching your teachers so much as we do with other districts, which again just different implementation models, but it's been a lot of fun to work through the sustainability collaboratively with you and Scott. And one more thing that I think you've done very well is in business, we call it marketing, right, but like you all are doing, like the infographics, like this is stuff you have to do if you want people to understand your work, because they just don't and you want them to buy in. Like we hear a lot of I shouldn't say a lot. But we see PBL movements that go away because they just don't and you want them to buy in. Like we hear a lot of I shouldn't say a lot but we see PBL movements that go away because they lose their funding and their board doesn't understand. And everybody says, well, that's unfair. Maybe, like, did we tell the board?
Ashley Curtin:Well, we invited them once right, You're like nope, you got to invite them again and again and again and get those advocates on the board.
Ryan Steuer:It's such a big deal. You had learners presenting to the board right Like very early on, and so impressive because most of us grew up in traditional education that's what we expect to happen. And then when we get hit with PBL, kid that can speak intelligently about whether it's third grader or a sophomore, about whatever it is. They're passionate about it's exciting work. So let's stay there for a second. So in this series I've been talking a lot about the Heath brothers. They've got in their book Switch. They've got this idea in big change processes, which you're obviously involved in. There's a lot of people, a lot of moving parts, a lot of variables that you have to identify. Bright spots is really where you start to get traction. So how do you do? I can hear it throughout the entire podcast or a whole conversation but how are you specifically identifying the bright spots in your work?
Ashley Curtin:Yeah. So I think about this in a couple of ways. Bright spots, you know. Initially I think, okay, where are we, where are we successful and how can we amplify that? Right, how can we talk about that? You know, how can we show off about that?
Ryan Steuer:And so that's.
Ashley Curtin:That's one of the things you know when we talk about that sort of marketing piece that we have done. But then I also think about, like, what are the bright spots in terms of what are the strongest aspects of the structures that we have set up? Like, that's the the program that we have built, right? And I think about that being grounded in really meeting teachers where they are. I think that philosophy is so important because we know teachers are overwhelmed, right, and we don't want them to see PBL as one more thing. So that leads me to one of my other points is that you know, we really have to look at how PBL is an avenue and a framework to continue to be grounded in skills and content curriculum, right, that it's not this extra thing, this extra project you do for fun over here. That it's really the mechanism through which kids are truly internalizing the content and applying those skills and standards, right? And? And helping teachers see that, I think is huge and that is a part of my role is it's helping them see their own success in that, too, right? Or thinking creatively about how to infuse that. Let's talk about your standards, okay, what are you hoping to accomplish with this sort of nugget of an idea you have right now Okay, how can we really make that an actualization, something that truly connects to reality, that your students can actually implement, not just you, right? So I think that's a big piece of it. And then also really sustaining the structures and, as you said, having that emphasis on continuing to grow the capacity of the program. That sustainability, that's huge. You can't just like say, okay, this is our program, this is great, but if you really want it to be a cultural shift and to be a true movement, you know how are you going to continue to grow it or encourage that and cultivate that, right? And so I think that's something that we have been really intentional about, and I, I, I think that's one of the reasons that we've had the success we have.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, so can you think of a time where you've got a bright spot and then the goal right and change process is then to multiply this bright spot right, or or show other people like what's a way that you've been successful or other leaders that you've seen have been successful in in multiplying one of these bright spots?
Ashley Curtin:Well, I think one of the things is that's been really cool about it is my teachers. You can see the shift in my teachers who have really embraced the work Right and they have brought other colleagues in, mostly because maybe there were some natural planning partnerships already or some, you know, content crossover or just maybe it's a classroom neighbor that kind of feels that energy right and meeting those people, not saying, oh, you're not really a part of the pathway yet I don't really have the capacity to work with you. I mean you can say that nicely, right, but no, I was willing to sit down and bring those people into those conversations. Now I do caution. People, like people, can be excited about PBL and not truly have that foundational understanding that I think is so important up front before you really try to dive in and implement. But having a thought partner and having a collaborative planning partner who is already in that work can help someone see the value of that work and they might just taste, test something right. They might take like, oh, you know that community building strategy the other day. I think it'd be a really good fit for this.
Ashley Curtin:I want to try it in my classroom, even though they're not doing like a PBL unit, right, so allowing that to happen, that sort of grassroots growth which I think sometimes you know it's going to sound like a criticism, it's not meant to, but I do think that sometimes education systems are set up to stifle that in a way, because we have these silos or we have these like really clear ways that we need to engage, because we have to check these boxes for funding or support or whatever it may be, and so it can kind of stifle that natural organic connection and creativity sometimes yeah, I think I mean you said the word allow and I think you also acknowledged.
Ryan Steuer:You know when, when other people wanted to say, hey, can I step into this PBL unit, it's like, yeah, you sure can, right, and sometimes it's giving people permission.
Ashley Curtin:Yes.
Ryan Steuer:Right. Some of those silos are just because it's the way we've always done it right. It's not even connected to funding or support or those kinds of things. It's just we've always done it this way and we need some permission to say, yep, we can do it differently, and when I step out, I've got supports right.
Ryan Steuer:That you all want to know that. We don't want to just jump off the cliff. We want to know that there's a parachute or somebody's there to help me. So Well, Ashley, I'm pretty sure we could keep talking for like another hour or so, but we'll have to have you on again.
Ashley Curtin:But, as we kind of close, what are some, maybe some parting words that you have for you in your building? And you know you have a really strong science team that's collaborative, and they're already strong and successful and they're they're people who are open to adopting a new idea, right, no-transcript, more opportunities than you may realize in your existing system. And you're right looking at those roles that already exist. How are we using our learning specialists? Is it really effective? Could we give them an avenue for doing the work that they do by helping them introduce this PBL framework to others? Introduce this PBL support to others, like this is a way to structure their ability to support and also to get them back in the classroom.
Ashley Curtin:That's one thing that has been great about my job is it's like the best of both worlds. I am in classrooms all the time, whether I'm, you know, supporting just as group work is happening, whether I'm a thought partner for kids, a feedback partner, whether I'm an audience member providing authenticity for a public presentation, or I'm coming in and leading a workshop. I do workshops on professionalism, I do workshops on multimedia learning, you know. So there's lots of different ways that you can tap into the people you already have that allows them to grow. And I think one of the reasons that it's worked for me is like I came from the nonprofit world. I already had experience with coordinating programs, with public speaking. So look at the people in your system. What expertise are you not tapping into? You know how can you really give them an avenue to grow and run away with it, and you know that goes back to that. You know, are you unintentionally stifling or not? And sometimes that's a hard question, but it's worth it. It's worth asking.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, well, and I like the idea that, even in your parting words, but it's worth. It's worth it, it's worth asking yeah, I well, and I like the idea that, even in your parting words, it's still like looking for bright spots, right Like before you go out to go find something like what is it that's currently in your district or in your school? Who likely, right Like, who's in there? What skillset do they have? So good? So PBL simplified audience. If you have a question, if you have a question for Ashley, go to pblsharecom. It's pblsharecom and you can put a question in there and we'll reach back out to Ashley and give her that need to know and we'll either have her back on the podcast or we can relay that answer as she has it, but we'll probably have her back on the podcast, I think, ashley, thank you so much for being on today and sharing with our leaders. Thank, but we'll probably have her back on the podcast.
Ashley Curtin:I think, ashley, thank you so much for being on today and sharing with our leaders. Thank you, ryan.
Ryan Steuer:It's always a pleasure. All right Movement Makers you have. Now, if you've listened, if you're going through the series, we're talking about PBL implementation. Basically, where do you start? Like? Because you want to start with the end in mind. So if you are a larger coach, this is a great implementation model for you and I really want you to kind of think through, go back, take notes. If you were running like, listen to this again, go get some notes, because there's a lot of gold in here about how you create sustainable systems, how you get people on board and how you really sustain a movement and not just another initiative that fizzles. So thank you so much for tuning in today. Your movement making that you are, that the vision that's in your heart, is important and we need it out in the world. Go out and lead inspired.
Ryan Steuer:Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the PBL Simplified podcast. I appreciate you and honor that you tune in each week. Would you please take two minutes to leave a rating and a review? When you leave a review, it lets the next person know that this is a podcast worth listening to when they go into their player and search project-based learning and PBL Simplified popped up when they see those reviews, they know that high-quality, visionary leaders are listening, so they tune in too and they can find their way into the PBL journey. Thank you so much for leaving a review. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate you.
