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PBL Simplified by Magnify Learning
K-12 PBL Pathway - CSA NewTech - Movement Maker Interview: Josh Giebel | E198
Ever wondered how Project Based Learning (PBL) has revolutionized education? Join us on the PBL Simplified Podcast as we reconnect with our original co-host, Josh, and uncover the remarkable growth and impact of the PBL movement. This episode is packed with reflections on our most successful summer yet and the exciting transitions into fall, focusing on coaching, leadership workshops, and Design Days. Josh shares some of his most memorable podcast moments, including inspiring conversations with passionate educators like Michael McDowell. Tune in to hear success stories and insights on how collaboration and continuous growth are shaping the future of education.
Have you ever thought about how leadership shapes the educational experience? In this episode, Josh shares his personal journey of becoming a senior math facilitator at CSA New Tech, eventually stepping into leadership roles and now principal We discuss the unexpected challenges and opportunities brought about by COVID-19 and the critical importance of avoiding complacency in education.
Finally, we dig into the power of shared ownership in cultivating leadership within educational settings. Drawing from personal experiences and emphasizing proactive mentorship, we explore how granting autonomy and involving teachers in decision-making processes can significantly enhance the school culture. We highlight the transformative impact of leaders like Mike Reed, who foster a collaborative and innovative environment, and discuss the importance of recognizing and amplifying bright spots within schools. By sharing these inspiring stories, we aim to motivate educators and leaders alike to create supportive and motivating educational environments where both teachers and students can thrive.
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Welcome to the PBL Simplified Podcast, where we add value to PBL movement makers so you can lead inspired, because everyone wins when leaders are inspired. So, whether you're leading a classroom, a school or a district, your leadership matters. We're obsessed with helping you transform your school. I'm your host, ryan Stoyer, chief Inspiration Officer at Magnify Learning. Thanks for tuning in today. Here's the deal. We just wrapped up probably our biggest summer to date, like we've been doing this for about a decade, and we had an awesome summer. We had elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, colleges everybody's jumping in. The movement is real, you're a part of it. So you're listening, but if you just dipped your toes in, know that, like this is the time.
Ryan Steuer:So now at magnify learning, we move into the fall season, so there's lots of coaching for us with the online community. We've got leadership workshops and our our leadership workshops. We call them design days because you and your leadership team principal AP coaches and lead teachers you come to a PBL model school and you plan out your next three years of PBL implementation. And I want to focus on that for two reasons here in the intro. Number one, we still have four slots open for you to join us this fall. You can still get in. But number two our guest today is principal of one of our PBL model schools, so you could literally have your design days at Josh's school.
Ryan Steuer:So, as you listen in today, just think through the idea of like, wow, that's great, ryan gets to ask Josh questions. You get to listen. But you can be asking your own questions in design days because you literally get to sit down with Josh, his staff and his learners to ask whatever questions you want to plan out your implementation. So you can say, hey, how'd you get started? What do you do for this? How do you look at curriculum? You get to ask them all those questions. But today I get to ask a question. So you're going to listen. Listener, we're so glad you joined us, josh. Welcome back to the podcast. You were the original host of the podcast, right Along with Andrea Baling, and you guys kept doing amazing things and we had to kind of shift some things. But so glad to have you back. Thanks for being here.
Josh Giebel:Yeah, I'm glad to be back. It definitely brings me back. I think I was in the office across the hall when we did a lot of our original podcast recordings, but now I've shifted back across the hall and excited to be back on the podcast and talking about PBL.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, and it's funny because it did so 200th episode is coming up, right. So I've been planning that and kind of thinking through, like looking back, and it's like you guys were doing that, like you were truly innovating at it, right, we didn't know what we were doing. We were still teachers, teaching teachers, and we're still have a lot of those same grassroots, but it's like we bought you a blue Yeti mic for a hundred bucks.
Ryan Steuer:You like plugged into your laptop and just went right and we were just making stuff up but it was so good. I love going back to those episodes still, honestly, because I love to see the progression right, like we're in this world, in this field, especially, I think, in PBL right, it's always growth mindset. When you think back, I'm going to take you back to the way back machine for a second and this isn't one of our questions. So you're in the hot seat but, like, what was one of your favorite parts of doing the podcast? Like, maybe it's a guest or something you got to, you know, speak into a specific topic, or, when you think about that, what's one of your favorite memories?
Josh Giebel:I mean there's I think there's a lot of really good memories. I think my favorite part of doing the podcast is being able to talk to other educators who are excited and passionate about what we do, not only because it just, I mean, it gives you that energy that you can then take out into your classroom or into your school, but I also just feel like you know that's how we get better as educators is we share our practice, we talk about it, we sit and we have, you know, sometimes hard conversations. Sometimes you find someone who's like I align with you perfectly, like let's take this further. So I think that was my favorite part was just being able to talk to a whole lot of a lot of facilitators and leaders who did that. You know, if I had to say a favorite guest and and I had a lot on there but one that always sticks with me and I know you've talked about his work as well as Michael McDowell. We talked to him about. We talked to him a little bit about rigorous PBL by design, but also just kind of standards based grading and and that approach.
Josh Giebel:And you know I've had a chance to work with Michael from my very beginning days at CSA New Tech. Just, he was one of our school coaches that we connected with on and you know I felt like he always you know the stuff he asked, questions he asked always pushed me to think further and think harder. You know, sometimes it was to help me get to see something, other times it was just because they were questions that needed to be asked as we continue to do the work that we're doing. So I, I enjoyed a podcast that that andre and I did with him and then I I also would say, like project showcases, we, we, I just like loved hearing about these successes that were happening in schools.
Josh Giebel:Like I get to see and got to see the successes happening at CSA New Tech, being able to see that it's happening elsewhere was just it's exciting, it's powerful, and especially when, you know, I never really thought much about the elementary world until we started doing those. And then you know in my work that we'll talk about here a little bit, when I transitioned and helped kind of build our virtual pathway K, k 12 and in our corporation, you know, hey, elementary students, I've I've heard some things that have been done with elementary students and like that was foreign to me outside of the PBL showcase world. So it was. It was good to have those as well.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, super good. We had. We've had Michael on the podcast a couple of times and highly recommend his work, his books all the time. It's an easy recommend, right and and ditto for sure on on, you know, listening to teachers to talk about, you know, just an awesome PBL unit. Or we brought a lot of leaders on too, just like this, to say, hey, leaders, how do you get started? Right, because that's where the questions come in too. Hey, love hearing about the teachers. Now, what about leaders? Where do we get it? And so just to queue up for our listener a little bit.
Ryan Steuer:So the episode before this is episode 198, episode 197, we actually talk about CSA New Tech as a case study. So if you're listening you might want to pause and go back and listen to that one first, or just take a bookmark and know you should go back and listen to it. So CSA New Tech is, it's a high school, it's part of a larger district, 11,000 students or so. It's a K-12 pathway for PBL, and so that's where you're at now as principal. But you've had a bit of an adventure to get there, right. So can you talk to us a little bit like PBL facilitator and now principal. What's your pathway been, just so we can have some background.
Josh Giebel:Yeah, absolutely so. I actually, you know, did my undergraduate work and grew up in Wisconsin and graduated from the University of Wisconsin in my first teaching job and my one of my first interviews. I had a few in person in Indiana, but one of my first interviews was with CSA New Tech and it was actually a Skype interview, which was also like at the time. You know, skype now is pretty much non-existent or outdated, it's not used very much, but at the time, you know, that was a pretty new and interesting technology. I'm like, how do I do this? Like you know, I'm getting used to interviewing anyway, but let alone they're going to be sitting, you know, 500 miles away from where I was sitting and having that opportunity to to interview and really honestly from from that interview.
Josh Giebel:I you know turned on the computer and, you know, not only did I see the principal, who I was interviewing with, but having a facilitator, a couple facilitators, a parent and a student asking me questions, like I just knew that there's something special about the school. And so that was my first teaching job. I started as a math facilitator here at New Tech and I did that for for eight years. After the first year, which I survived, which was, you know, great and I learned a lot, I, you know, co-taught in a couple classes, one with geometry, one where we married English and probability and statistics, and so that had me thinking outside of the box, right out of the way.
Josh Giebel:After that first year, our school. So when I came into CSA, new Tech, we just it was our third year, so we had three classes. We each year we added a hundred. So when the building opened in 2008, the first class was a hundred freshmen and then we added another hundred. So when the building opened in 2008, the first class was 100 freshmen, and then we added another 100 the next year. And then, you know, I came on the third year where we added, you know, juniors. We had juniors for the first time. Going to the fourth year, we added, I want to say eight or nine new facilitators. And so all of a sudden I and one of our math facilitators the other math facilitator actually got a job with New Tech Network coaching. So I became the senior math facilitator after just my first year.
Josh Giebel:But I mean honestly it was exciting because that allowed me to grow as a leader, because I had to help these two new math facilitators we hired kind of figure out PBL and work together through it. And so it was was really exciting. So eight years in the classroom. During that time I became a certified PBL facilitator and a certified trainer in the first couple of years through through my work and then then I got to start working with magnify learning and we started doing some of our you know workshops and I built that after eight years in the classroom our our counselor or pupil services person left. That role is much more than counselor and pupil services.
Josh Giebel:It's really kind of almost an assistant leader, co leader with with Mr Reed. Mike Reed, he, you know that was my opportunity to kind of step into that leadership role. That's when I did my work to get my administrator's license, you know, got to see that side of the school system, and so I did that for three years and during that time I, you know, I continued to work with Mike to lead our school. I did, I helped with observations. I wasn't officially an evaluator but you know we'd go in and do observations, things like that.
Ryan Steuer:Just for the listeners sake. Like for you guys that's essentially an AP role. Right, like that's an assistant principal, vice principal, it's you're leading, you know PDs. Right, instruction for staff like you're in. The like with the size of your school 400 kids or so. Right, 100 per grade level. Like you're really helping to lead the building. Right.
Josh Giebel:Yeah, it was. I mean, it was 100% a co-leadership piece, you know, and you know that's something that experience, you know, allowed me to feel confident and you know, I think ultimately, you know, when I started that process, the goal is always to be here, as you know, as the next principal at CSA New Tech During my time, or, you know, I guess it was 2020 when COVID hit our district. So we had a virtual pathway, but it was designed to be just a small for a handful of students who needed that thing. But, you know, covid changed those plans a little bit and so there was an opportunity for me to apply for and they chose me to kind of build our virtual program into something that could be sustainable for and they chose me to kind of build our virtual program into something that could be sustainable that was beyond just that small handful of students, knowing full well that we're not taking, we're not going to be able to keep, you know, just 15 kids or 20 kids doing virtual education during the COVID time. So I had an opportunity to be the director of our K-12 virtual pathway in our school corporation and that was something.
Josh Giebel:It was a hard decision, because leaving CSA New Tech was never really part of the plan. It was always like that. I felt like this was the school I wanted to be at and I wanted to be at the school for my career and I kind of always hoped that the next step would be like I'm going to go in and take over when Mike retires. But know, but having the opportunity, this was an opportunity for me to lead a different group of educators, which I think is important, as I think think back and reflect on it, those three years working with a team that wasn't, you know, the team that I was comfortable with.
Josh Giebel:You know, and we'll talk about this probably, you know, as we work through their like, complacency is the biggest challenge in education, because it's easy to get into a routine and sit there and say like, okay, I've done it and I've done it well for a lot of years. It's really easy for me to like fall back on that and I had to ask myself, like, is me, you know, sticking in this role for a couple more years? Is that me being complacent? And I ultimately said, like I've got to take this opportunity.
Josh Giebel:So for three years I got a chance to lead a virtual pathway, you know, and that was great for me and my development as a leader. And then last year, when Mike retired, I had the opportunity to come and interview and ultimately again they chose me to be the second ever principal at CSA New Tech and I can't be more excited about that opportunity. It's been great. I've only been back in school for a couple of weeks, but it's been great being back in the building and doing this work. It's an opportunity to kind of develop our next revolution here as we work through it.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, I love it Because revolution that's a word that you all use, right. Like you're not just doing education, you're not just getting grades, like you're, you've got revolutionaries there. And you mentioned that you know Mike Reed's founding principal right For a decade, right. So this has been a strong program. It's always been innovative, leading this work, I think, across the country. It's one of my favorite systems of PBL and innovative education.
Ryan Steuer:We at Magnify Learning we see really cool ecosystems fizzle and go away when the principal moves or does, and which is fine, right. We know that principals move on to different positions and they retire. What's not fine is that then the work goes away, right. So succession planning has been a piece that has really piqued my interest in the last two to three years, just reading, listening continually to pick people's brains, you guys. I mean it's just phenomenal the way that you guys have the succession planning right. I love the way it's set up. What are some things that you've learned from Mike again, the former principal of CSA New Tech, in this succession plan? That's prepared you for the role that you're in now.
Josh Giebel:Yeah, I mean a lot. There's a lot that I learned from Mike and that started in the classroom. You know, really, when I was like I said a brand new, a brand new teacher, and a brand new teacher in a role that you know is wasn't just being asked to like show up and here's a lesson plan, and you know it wasn't a traditional setting like what I was prepared for in college. It was here's a new way to think about education. So he taught me a lot just in terms of, I mean, I would say probably just in the classroom sense. The biggest thing that I probably learned from Mike is and it's something that will stick with me is just to work the behavior and not the kid, and the relationship piece is just so important, and so I know that's not really the succession planning piece of it, but for edging I think it is Josh because I think it's important.
Ryan Steuer:I'm just thinking of movement makers, leaders that are listening, right, it's innovative leaders leading a building or a district or maybe a classroom. Right, in those leadership positions you can't wait to like, hey, I think I might retire next year. I should get somebody ready, right? That's too late, right?
Josh Giebel:So, really, to start with how we're interacting with teachers in the classroom, we're building leadership, right, yeah, and I think that you know that kind of leads into the big piece, like I think, for me, the you know, I guess, the shock that I had. I'm in my second year and I'm being asked to be a mentor for new facilitators and new teachers in our program. You and I'm being asked to be a mentor for new facilitators and new teachers in our program, you know, and I'm thinking like there's no way.
Josh Giebel:I'm really like you want, like are you sure, you know, and I know there's some circumstances where like, yes, I was the senior most math facilitator at the time but like the trust that he gave me in those moments and it's not like he just said like you're doing this now, you know, let go and figure it out. But, you know, said like you're doing this now, you know, let go and figure it out. But you know, he empowered me in that moment to really do what. I mean he knows that I could do. And I think that trust in that not even that trust, but that like, hey, you're here, you're going to do this, it was a little bit of accountability to like. I think he saw in me that I had, you know, the capacity to be a leader and he empowered me to do that. He allowed me to do what I can do best.
Josh Giebel:And I think something that he did a really good job of as a leader was making sure that he kind of protected some of the outside noise and said I hired you guys, I trust my instincts in hiring you. I'm going to let you do what you do best, which is to teach and to innovate on teaching. And you know, he provided the framework, which was PBL, and said like this is what my expectations are and we're going to provide the support there. But then he said like go do it, like you don't need to ask me permission for every little thing that you're going to do in your classroom, because I trust you to do the job that I hired you to do, and classroom because I trust you to do the job that I hired you to do and he coached us through that.
Josh Giebel:And so, you know, not only was that in my classroom, but I think you know, when we talk about design team meetings that happen every month and staff meetings and professional development, he didn't stand in front of us for, you know, an hour or for two hours or if it's a half day, like he didn't stand and just deliver professional development content. Like he put that on us and said, like hey, I saw you did this in your classroom. Like that's a, we need to show that to everyone else. Like, can you take, can you do a, you know, can you do a 20 minute or 30 minute workshop on on that and lead a discussion on that? And I think that that ability to always look at like I think a big part of it is, you know, it's our school.
Josh Giebel:And when we talk about a design team, like you know it was called the design team when they started because literally, they were designing the school.
Josh Giebel:Yeah, but it's, it sticks around, right, like your school changes, um, and you, you know, I mean we're now established, we have a, you know we have a strong, consistent enrollment that keeps coming back. We've got processes and procedures in place but, like we're still designing the school. When we make decisions about you know what projects we want to do, what you know culture building pieces like what our school focus is for the year, how we develop our professional development. That's not a decision that I should make by myself, because it impacts so many more people than me. In fact, I'm probably at least impacted by it when I think about it. Like students, teachers, everyone else is more impacted by those professional development training, so like, why shouldn't they have a voice in it? And so we we work really hard to make sure that those who are impacted by the decision have a say in in those decisions, and I think doing that really builds leadership and and the facilitators, because they they own the school as much as as anyone else yeah, and then you're, you're truly leading.
Ryan Steuer:Right, you're not just managing, you're not pulling people along and you're not making sure that people are at their desk at 7 30 like they're. They're, they're ready to do the work, they're pushing the work and, and that's the culture that you know, that founding team, you know, started there. But you still have to give Mike a lot of credit to be able to lead that, right, and he's such an, he's such a great leader to like. He's not at least from the outside looking in, he's not the big, flamboyant, extroverted leader, right, but he's not at least from the outside looking in. He's not the big, flamboyant, extroverted leader, right, um, but he's so empowering, right, he's like giving you autonomy and that culture, the adult culture right, goes right down to the student culture and then obviously you've kind of soaked that up, so now you can bring it in as the next principal. Because, again, founding principal, 10 years, right, that's a Like everybody's used to Mike. But really, what I think Mike did so well is that people were used to the culture Like yes, Mike was always there.
Ryan Steuer:Do you think that's fair? Like, is that kind of the secret sauce maybe? What do you think that is?
Josh Giebel:Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, the reality is like, obviously Mike's skill as a leader, you know, is immense and Mike's skill as a leader, you know, is immense and he was able to pull that off and especially in a climate where, you know, when New Tech started, like PBL was just kind of really starting to creep in, you know there weren't we were a small. There were a small number of schools in Indiana. Then you know, over the next, five years it grew exponentially.
Josh Giebel:But I think the reality is, you know, by sharing leadership and by building capacity in his facilitators, it wasn't like he was the you know, the one northern star where everyone had to look to him for that very specific like what are we going to do next? It was kind of more like all right, as a team, what are we going to do next? And I think building that professional culture of shared ownership and shared leadership really built our culture into a strong professional culture where you know we get to have fun and celebrate success together but we're also going to dig in and do the work together. And he would be right there with us and not telling us like you need to do the work. It was our ship to lead and figure out.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, I think that's part of the secret sauce of succession planning. You know, going so well in a culture being there. There's some humility in that leadership as well. So a lot of good takeaways. So at CSA New Tech, you've had visitors from all over the world. Right, You've hosted a ton of design days. Like there are systems that drive a very long way to come do design days and then bring it back to their school systems. That's part of, again, this thing I'm calling the secret sauce. Like when you walk into CSA New Tech, there is a secret sauce like you can just feel it, like it's a feel, Right, you don't even have to talk to anybody. Yet I don't think. And it's an innovative looking building. But there's so much more than that. So when you look in your leadership position now and you look forward three years, what are some things that you're excited about as you kind of start your principal tenureship?
Josh Giebel:Yeah, there's a lot I'm excited about. First and foremost, I'm just excited to be back in that PBL setting. I really do believe when we think about frameworks that drive instruction that engages students and puts them in the best place to be successful, not just during that four years or, you know, 12 years that they're in their school, but what they're going to do next, I think that that work is never ending and it's always changing, as you know, as the job market changes. Those skills that we work to teach is they have to change and so, like I think pbl is a is a great tool to kind of combat complacency in education and I think it's good.
Josh Giebel:When we look at, when we look at education over the years, we've seen changes. We've seen the different, you know, professional trends that we're going to push out there. But pbl doesn't let you just say, like well, this project that I have and we have legacy project checks that we do and retool every year. But you know, doing something that you've done for 12 years because it's work is great, but there's always a better way to do it and I think, as we learn to figure out how to make it a little bit more innovative and a little bit more relevant for students like that work can always keep us there.
Josh Giebel:And I think PBL naturally asks the question of like well, how can we do it differently or better or make it more relevant for kids? And I think you know it could be just the changing of a community partner all of a sudden, like hey, they have an idea and that idea takes off. So that's a big part of it. But there's a couple of things that we talked about as a team. So as soon as I got hired back in April, may I don't remember if it was April or May, that's when the work started I started meeting with facilitators. I started meeting with students and just asked, like okay, so where are we and what comes next? Like what are the things that are like we need to keep this and what are the things that we could work on? And something that kind of came out of that work and the conversations was we really wanted to build a culture that cares. And so that's two. There's twofold to that One and I think this is pretty well established is we want a culture that cares about each other. Students care about students, they care about the facilitators and all of those relationships. That's foundational to our school as it is right now and I don't think that that's a really new work. But the new work comes in like what does that look like now compared to what it looked like back 10 years ago? But the other part is caring about our outcomes, and so those outcomes mean a lot of different things for students. So, you know, some students come into high school and they're dead set on, like I'm going to go to college, I'm going to go to med school, and then I'm going to be a doctor, and and we need to prepare students for that and make sure that they're competitive in that, that realm. And then the other you know the other students might come in and go. I have to do this for four more years. How am I going to make it through? All I want to do is start working, whether they already have a job or they're thinking about it, and we need to understand those goals too and make sure that the outcomes that we have for them match what they need to move into the workplace.
Josh Giebel:So really, I think that next iteration of how do we personalize PBL in a way that pushes every student to succeed and be the best version of themselves, but also isn't, you know, so often in the classroom, you know, and I think out of necessity, we end up doing things in a way that allow us to hit the middle of everyone and we don't always focus on the outside edges, but PBL has a lens that lets us do that. So how do we better assess our work so that we can be intentional about hitting those edges? And I think part of that work and one of the things we've started to unravel is like what does our assessment look like in the classroom and how do we use assessment as a really guiding piece in the learning process, instead of the end where it's like here's my rubric, here's a score, there's feedback on it. Okay, I saw the score and I put the rubric aside because that's what right now, that's what most of our kids care about. Like, okay, I got an, a great now now what instead of like?
Josh Giebel:okay, well, I didn't really dig in and see these rubrics that could help me get to the next level of oral communication or the next level of collaboration, like how do I leave school not just having gotten a bunch of grades, but like I have a path to get better at those skills that I know we're going to need for the rest of my life when I go and work in a company and have to lead or have to collaborate or have to follow instructions.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, yeah, I love it. I mean because you're, it's superbly maximized growth mindset, right, like all the time. It's like you know how do we get a little better? Because the workplace is changing, right, like the world's changing, like for our kids. So, you know, did the kids change the world changed? Like, yes, and yes, our kids, so you know, is that the kids change the world change.
Ryan Steuer:Like yes and yes, right, so we need to change and just have that in your culture. So next question is like, what needs to be on your radar as an administrator to continue this awesome culture? And I think legacy, right, like you've got a legacy at CSA, new tech at this point, like. So now, as a leader, who's stewarding that legacy? What do you keep on your radar? What are you always looking for?
Josh Giebel:You know, I think the big thing that I'm on the lookout for is those. I mean, I've said it a lot, but complacency is one of those things. It's really easy to get into a groove and feel good about it, and so, for me, I'm looking for, you know, highlighting the things that are going really well, but not just saying like, hey, you know, we're struggling with. You know we use an agency rubric that's huge and has a lot of great components, but you know, there's a tendency to stick to a couple of those indicators because they're they're easy to come up with assessments for. So, you know, from when I'm looking with my working, with my facilitators, it's like okay, so we've got this down and we need to keep doing this, like what's the next thing we're going to add on? Right? And so our vision at NewTek is to be a revolutionary pathway for education, and it's been that vision and it's something that we have to continue to constantly ask, like you know, what is revolutionary about what we're doing?
Josh Giebel:You know, yes, pbl is a revolutionary practice and it can continue to be in. The work we do is but like inherent in that revolutionary practice is like you've got to keep pushing or at some point you're no longer revolutionary.
Josh Giebel:Right and so having that vision, to kind of ask the question like okay, so what comes next? You know, and I think the other part of what we've we've done to create that culture is and you mentioned it earlier like our professional culture needs to stay strong or our student culture will suffer. And so, you know, one of the challenges that every school faces now is you have, you have teacher turnover, and you know whether it's because you know there's teachers get burned out turnover, and you know whether it's because you know there is teachers get burned out. Or you know other opportunities arise and you lose a you know, lose a teacher to a different opportunity. Um, you know that is a reality. And so, um, you know, when new facilitators come on, it's important that we can build them and bring them into our culture and not just kind of say, well, this is how we do it and catch up, or you're out Like we've got to constantly be pushing that process and helping them buy in, and not just because we know it works, but like because they know it works.
Josh Giebel:And so that doesn't happen. If you just, you know, we can sit here all day and say PBL is wonderful, pbl is wonderful, some people will buy that because they think it's there. Others won't really buy into that until they start doing in their classroom and go oh yeah, this is pretty amazing. Why did I ever not?
Josh Giebel:you know, why didn't I do this earlier? This is exactly what I need in my classroom. So, you know, it's the same thing with new facilitators Like we've got to get them seeing other bright spots in our classrooms, other elements to showcase and then again building that leadership, to say, okay, I, you know, I know you can do this part. Like now I'm going to let you shine, you know, and step in and say, like you know, I know you're just a first year in the classroom, but like what you did and what I saw in your classroom, like that's amazing. Other facilitators need to do that and that value needs to be there.
Josh Giebel:I think one of the challenges when you have a school that's around and you have those teacher turnovers like we've got teachers who've been here since pretty close to the beginning, or PBL gurus who've got a lot of knowledge it could be really easy for a staff to have like the us and them mentality right, like they know what they've done forever and like now I'm just this new person so I shouldn't speak up in a, in a meeting where I shouldn't, you know, my ideas probably aren't vetted and so like that can't happen.
Josh Giebel:So we work really hard to to foster that culture with with staff, and it's not just professional development, it's like we have fun together too. You know, when we have our annual conference every summer, it's not, you know, it's not paid, it's on our time. We tend to try to go outside somewhere. This summer we were at Columbus Youth Camp and we, you know we do leadership. You know fun games that are part of those leadership trainings that they do with kids out there, and you know we laugh and we have a good time and we're outside and it just builds that, that culture that says like, yes, we're going to dig in and have really important conversations, but we're also going to have fun together, and I think that's really critical.
Ryan Steuer:Well, I think it's important to kind of pull out of out of you and your experience is like, yeah, we're assessments going to be important, like you guys are going to be at a high level at all those pieces. But if I ask like, like, what's really on your radar? It's like I want to make sure my staff culture is solid, right, right, like that's really like right, if you had to be, maybe the interesting question is like what would you? What else would you drop? Like, what would you make sure you don't drop? Right, it feels like staff culture would be at the very top, because that then dictates everything else that happens, right, and because you can't be in every classroom as a leader and I think that's where leaders get burnt out is they're trying to be in every classroom versus empowering that new teacher, you know, matching that new teacher up with a mentor and those types of things, and so I think it's great.
Ryan Steuer:I love that you pulled that out. It's definitely part of the culture there and you mentioned bright spots, right, which is we're in this series of asset-based school development, like really building transforming schools through the assets that we already see, and the Heath brothers have some really great research around like true change process, like where we're being revolutionary and we're changing education, we're transforming schools. It really is centered around increasing the bright spots. There are some things like if you've got, if the bus line doesn't work at your school, you can just change that. That's different. But if you're really looking at change process with people, we look at bright spots. So what does that look like for you as a leader, coming in, but just also throughout your career? How are you finding those bright spots?
Josh Giebel:Yeah, I think the biggest thing and this is, I think, probably my favorite part of being back so far is, like you know, as a leader and as administrator of school, like you have probably more than enough stuff that you can do on your computer every day to keep you in front of that screen for 8, 10, 12 hours. Um, it's just the reality of it. Like email alone could take me that long. If I, if I, you know, respond to every email the second or, you know, within even a half hour of of when it was sent. I mean, I do pay attention to that, but like you've got to be out, you've got to be out there, right.
Josh Giebel:Like, if you're a leader in a school and your kids don't know that you're part of the school or they don't know that you're in their classrooms and they don't know you know what you do, other than like, hey, you know I got in trouble, so I'm going down to the principal's office Like you're not going to ever you're going to get, you're going to burn out and you're not going to ever find those bright spots.
Josh Giebel:So being in the classroom is a big part of it.
Josh Giebel:But I also think, like asking kids because again you mentioned, like I can't be in every classroom all at once, but like if you're not sitting down having conversations about with kids about what's going well, you're gonna, you're gonna miss bright spots, right, and like even even sometimes in the classroom, like I find myself doing observations, it can be really easy to focus on that group that's, you know, on their phones or are not fully engaged and looking at how the facilitators responding to that.
Josh Giebel:When you know, if I just turn my head a little bit over to the right, I'd see the group that's really doing some really powerful work. So I think, having an avenue to collect feedback from students, whether that's, you know, just being out in the halls and engaging in conversation with them or it's having a student, so we have a student voice team that we meet with regularly to bring up things that are going well and things that aren't, and that's an avenue for you know, if right now students like, if they're not happy with the dress code, the way it is like, that team can bring a proposal and say, like this is what we think our student handbook should say about the dress code, and we can present that and have that conversation. I think, being willing to have those conversations and being open to ask for the celebrations, and I think that's a big part of it too.
Josh Giebel:Like all of us can focus on the negative. Sometimes it's really easy to do that, especially at the end of the day when you're tired. But like making sure that every part of our staff meeting we have golden shining moment or we have an opportunity for staff to share you know a bright spot from their week or from their month, and highlighting those you know, and all of a sudden you start to hear patterns. It's like okay, well, it seems like we're doing really well in this area. Like how do we maximize that? And so I think, just being present in the moment, but also being intentional, to like end your day with find the positive right. Like find something that's going well and celebrate that, no matter how small you know sometimes it's. You know that one student made it through the whole day without you know, without having to be sent out of class or without having to. You know have a check-in in the hallway with a facilitator. Like, celebrate that right.
Josh Giebel:And that you know often that little thing might be a really big thing. Is that to me that tells me that that student is now building relationships and trust with facilitators that they may not see. But it's like you know, you, you did that work right. Like I, I I get to see as many students as I can put myself in front of. Like they get to see 30 to 40 students every, every period of their day, every single day, like the time that my facilitators have in front of students is going to like tenfold, have more, you know, more impact than what I can have in a single day. So for me it's how do you foster that? How do you make sure that facilitators feel that love and that glowing, shining energy that they're bringing every single day?
Ryan Steuer:That makes a ton of sense. You're bringing it back to your facilitators again, right? So, like hey, I noticed that Ryan was only in the hallway three times today. Usually it's seven. Right, it's like as a teacher in the classroom it's hard to see that. Right, like, I still had to send that kid out three times, but you know it's so much better.
Ryan Steuer:You know, I think the there's some research that says if you just end your day with five bullet points of gratitude right, just things that happen you're 25% happier. Right, so finding those bright spots is a big deal, not just for the kids, right, it is important to encourage those kids. We all know that. But both as the facilitators that you're supporting and then you, right, as the leader, like hey, I recognize five things today, right, that were positive because you're putting out a lot of fires.
Ryan Steuer:Right, you have to deal with the stuff that nobody else wants to deal with, that the general public like, doesn't understand happens in the real world. Right, like I don't know, you go to Thanksgiving or whatever and you get the family together, and you probably I don't. I stopped telling some of those stories Cause I I'm not sure people even believe them, but, like, some of these things happen in the real world, folks, and somebody has to take care of them, and it's it's school leaders a lot of times, right, so so that your facilitators can do the work. So you're identifying bright spots. Let's kind of start to wrap on this Cause I think finding the bright spots is such a big deal in in this change process and transforming schools.
Josh Giebel:Once you find one, like, how do you start to multiply that so it can grow? I think the big part is recognizing it like and I make it a point anytime I'm, you know, anytime I'm in a classroom, even if it's like a five second walk through, like you gotta let the facilitators know what you're seeing, that's, that's awesome work, right, like um and it can be a. It can be a quick text, it can be an email. We use um, an app for our pbis system, and so I can do a highlight like that. So I think that's a big initial step that you know in the grand scheme of things, like stopping for you know 35 seconds to send that email over the course of a year.
Josh Giebel:You know if a facilitator is having a rough year and saying like I just don't know, hey, go back to your email and just like search for you know highlights or you know whatever and read those things, and I think that that can help do that.
Josh Giebel:But then I think the big piece is is we got to showcase those pieces and ask, ask facilitators to talk about them intentionally? So even if it's just like highlighting a tech tool or whatever that is working really well, that prompts a discussion around why it's such an amazing practice and that discussion alone, like you know, every time we have those showcases, like I can see the ripple effects in other classrooms like, so maybe one, one classroom is doing it, or one or two facilitators was doing it, and then, like you know, in that next week, 10 of them are doing it, and so you know, and by having 10 people do it, then that might force some facilitators to say like well, if we're all doing it, like I've got to innovate and shift and change to do something else. And I think that's how you start to multiply. It is really showcasing those opportunities, highlighting them and giving the time in whether it's professional development staff meeting or even just asking someone to to just reflect on it in in my office, like giving that time, um, to focus on the positive things that went really well, you know, I think that empowers facilitators, like I mean, it's just like anything you like, everyone, everyone wants to know they're doing a good job and so, if we can, highlight a bright spot and and give airtime to it.
Josh Giebel:Not only does that get a really great practice out in front of facilitators that can be applied to other classrooms. I think it builds confidence in your facilitator and then they're looking at okay, so I've got some confidence, like maybe I'm going to try this thing that I've been thinking about for a while, that I have been a little hesitant to do, which may lead to another really great price spotter. It may lead to a flop, and that happens too. But it's a lot easier to try those things if you know that you're going to get recognized positively for that work and that innovation.
Josh Giebel:So you know every part of our you know again, I'm just starting these, so we haven't had a whole lot of design team meetings but, like, my goal is every part of having those meetings is having some sort of showcase. You know whether it's, you know, pbl element, whether it's, you know, just showcasing student work that came out of a project or it could be, like I said, a tech tool or it could be. You know pieces like that. And then this is something that we work really hard to do, as well as not just highlighted in our building but highlighted in our district and highlighted in our community. So like we, we tend to work really closely with our local newspaper. Anytime we've got projects going on and elements like, we try to get them in as often as possible and celebrating that.
Josh Giebel:Nothing more rewarding for a facilitator is like that that's my project on the front page, or you know that that paper, like that article, is all about our class and it just it's a sense of pride, and I think that that that carries a long way in terms of allowing facilitators to feel comfortable and confident innovating, which is what, what we really want yeah, that's a big deal.
Ryan Steuer:Well, um, we're gonna wrap on that.
Ryan Steuer:But I heard, like the idea of giving an airtime right, like I know a lot of great principals that you know kind of walk through the classroom and they'll leave a post-it note, right, like you know post-it note, and it's just one positive thing I saw and that's a big deal right. To me it sounds like one step further is to give airtime right, like put it into a faculty meeting, get it into the paper, get it into the district newsletter, and you're just giving airtime to things that you think are important. That's what you're telling your staff, right, this is what we think is important. And I also heard you say that if you've got a facilitator that's bringing that to a faculty meeting, then it's not you presenting it even right. It's like this is coming at kind of grassroots again, right, and then really start to see it grow. I'm super excited for this year, right, but certainly years ahead, excited for people to come visit Design Days and sit down with you and your team and start to plan out their year too.
Ryan Steuer:Josh, thanks for being on today. So good to have you back. Super excited for you, brother.
Josh Giebel:Absolutely. Thanks for having me. It was wonderful being back on the podcast and not having to necessarily come up with the questions to ask. I enjoyed that and I'm so excited to continue to work with great educators and PBL.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, I'm so glad to have you back in that seat and back home in that school. It's neat to see that succession plan. All right, ppl Simplified listeners, thank you for listening to this. Really, just a masterclass on how you keep a legacy going, how you keep a culture going with your staff, understanding that as you're looking at staff culture, it is going to affect your student culture. Cannot skip that. You cannot skip that step. It's so important. You hear Josh. He's in the hot seat right now. You know, in that seat at csa new tech and talking all about staff culture, right, and it's such a big deal. So go visit josh, go to csa new tech. You can set up some design days and we can help you plan out your next three years so that you're implementing and we will have you on the podcast right in three or four years talking about the system that you've created. Don't forget, as the leader, you are the lid, so raise your lid and go lead inspired.
Ryan Steuer:Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the PBL Simplified Podcast. I appreciate you and honor that you tune in each week. Would you please take two minutes to leave a rating and a review? When you leave a review. It lets the next person know that this is a podcast worth listening to. When they go into their player and search project-based learning and PBL Simplified popped up, when they see those reviews, they know that high quality, visionary leaders are listening, so they tune in too and they can find their way into the PBL journey. Thank you so much for leaving a review. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate you.
