PBL Simplified by Magnify Learning
PBL Simplified Podcast helps innovative principals and teachers like you bring Project Based Learning to your classrooms. PBL Simplified is in the top 5% of over 2 million global podcasts.
Hosted by Ryan Steuer, of Magnify Learning, we strive to empower school leaders and teachers with examples from Project Based Learning classrooms, leadership inspiration, and practical PBL resources.
Subscribe to the weekly podcast and visit WhatisPBL.com to get started on your Project Based Learning journey!
Whether you are a teacher or school leader, there is something for you on PBL Simplified:
1st Wednesday: PBL Leadership Episode
2nd Wednesday: PBL Showcase - a PBL facilitator shares a PBL Unit
3rd Wednesday: PBL Leadership Episode
4th Wednesday: PBL Interview.
Subscribe and listen to real educators like yourself, who are innovating in the classroom to help their learners become part of an inspiring story. For more Project Based Learning resources, visit www.magnifypbl.com
PBL Simplified by Magnify Learning
Rethinking College Choice: Embracing Values Over Rankings | E208
Join us for an eye-opening episode where Jared and Jen, the dynamic co-founders of Forget the Rankings, challenge the traditional perceptions of college selection. They push back against the prestige-driven mindset, urging us to reconsider what truly matters in the college search. Through their engaging conversation, you'll learn about a values-based approach that prioritizes personal happiness and fulfillment. Jared shares a memorable anecdote illustrating why we should celebrate every student's journey, not just those who reach elite institutions. Jen echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of understanding one's motivations and priorities in the college landscape.
Our discussion unfolds with an exploration of how conventional college criteria, like size and location, often overshadow the deeper question of what brings joy and purpose to a student's life. We unpack innovative techniques such as card sorting and guided questioning, offering a personalized roadmap for first-generation college students who might find the process overwhelming. The insights shared by Jared and Jen are invaluable not only for students but also for parents, coaches, and guardians who wish to support them on this journey.
As we confront the challenges posed by the obsession with rankings, we also spotlight the often-overlooked benefits of smaller liberal arts colleges. Jared and Jen advocate for a shift away from the pressures perpetuated by the college admissions industry, encouraging a paradigm where educational choices are genuinely reflective of personal values. By doing so, we hope to spark a broader societal change that promotes long-term fulfillment and happiness, reducing the high rates of career dissatisfaction and financial burdens faced by many.
CONNECT WITH FORGET THE RANKINGS
Instagram: @forget_the_rankings
Facebook: Forget The Rankings: The Values-Driven College Search
LinkedIn: Forget the Rankings
TikTok: @forget_the_rankings
Twitter (X): @f_the_rankings
forgettherankings.com
JOIN THE ONLINE PBL COMMUNITY
https://magnifypbl.mykajabi.com/pmoc
SHARE A PBL WIN!
ORDER THE BOOK PBL SIMPLIFIED (affiliate link)
SCHEDULE A PBL TRAINING WITH MAGNIFY LEARNING
https://resources.magnifylearningin.org/onsite-workshops
CHECK OUT RESOURCES MENTIONED ON THE PODCAST
FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA
BOOK A MAGNIFY LEARNING DESIGN DAYS WORKSHOP
https://www.magnifylearningin.org/design-days-sign-up
Some of the links above are affiliate links which means we get a small commission on anything you purchase using that link (at no more cost to you). As Amazon As
Welcome to the PBL Simplified Podcast. I'm your host, ryan Stoyer, chief Inspiration Officer at Magnify Learning. We're super excited to have you with us. If it's your first time, you probably are looking for some PBL info resources and just anything you can get your hands on. So I want you to go to whatispblcom. Go to whatispblcom and, whether it's your first time, or you're listening all the time we time, or you're listening all the time we've got guest speakers.
Ryan Steuer:Today and that is plural we have two guests on from Forget the Rankings. So Forget the Rankings is. I think it's going to be an awesome conversation, because now we're looking at a college search not just based on kind of what you're good at in school or what you think you should be good at, or what school your parents want you to go to or you think you should go to, and so we're going to forget those rankings. We've got Jared and Jen who are the co-founders of Forget the Rankings. I'm going to give you kind of some of their statements from their website because I love it. So it's. We believe in helping students flourish, helping them increase confidence, get to know themselves better and choose colleges based on what fits them, not some silly ranking. We're here to change the conversation about college. One student, one family, one counselor at a time. They've got resources for all three of those. It should be about values, not prestige. We're ready to help you forget the rankings and find your happy place. So good, jared and Jen, thanks for being on the podcast today.
Jen Vallieres:Thanks for having us. We're excited to be here.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, so give a little bit. I'm going to give a little bit more context. Like you are currently in schools, right, as counselors. Like this is the work you do every day with a ton of students. You see the pressure, you see the anxiety that comes out of this and and you guys have a solution. So I'm super excited to bring it to our audience and just for me to learn more honestly. But before we do, every guest gets the same question when they come on the podcast. So what is your, why for the work that you do?
Jared Epler:Yeah, I think for me it's best told by a story from pretty early in my counseling career. I was working for a nonprofit organization doing college access work and I had a student who applied early to an Ivy League school I won't say which one, but was really excited and I had never had a student accepted to an Ivy League at this point. So we had developed a code. She was going to come to the office and say chocolate ice cream if she got in and we were going to go out for chocolate ice cream and she was going to say vanilla ice cream if she didn't. And we were still going to go for ice cream, but we weren't going to talk about it. And I'll never forget the day she came to the office. She just walked to my desk and said chocolate ice cream and I screamed and jumped up and hugged her. I was so excited.
Jared Epler:And then, about 24 hours later, another student came up to my desk the next day and said where's my ice cream? And I said I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. And she said well, for this student like you offered her ice cream. I got into the junior college in our area last week and I didn't get any ice cream, and I felt incredibly small in that moment deservedly so and it just made me reflect a lot about you know what role I play in perpetuating this narrative that, like, certain schools are worth celebrating, or you know, certain outcomes are worth applauding and then really realizing. I never want another student to feel that way. We should be celebrating every success, and it doesn't just have to be reserved for, you know, the top 100 schools that people talk about all the time.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, and how about you?
Jen Vallieres:So for me, it's working with the students at the high school, where I work every day and and many of them coming in and sharing that they want to go to whatever school is on their list that they've deemed is the perfect school, the only school that they will consider where they'll be happy, own. They don't have a good reason why. It's tied to the rankings, the name, the brand, so to speak, and their identity gets wrapped up in it and they lose sight of what's meaningful about being a teenager. So they're not taking classes for the right reasons, they're stacking their schedules with too many APs and honors classes, they're not going out for ice cream or whatever it is after school with their friends, they're on too many clubs.
Jen Vallieres:Nothing is being done well or for the right reasons, and what it does is it takes a toll on their mental health and we see that coming through depression and anxiety, sometimes self-harm, sometimes wrapped up in what their families and their grownups are expecting of them, and they don't have the ability to step back and think about why am I doing this? It's all for this end. They think of getting into a certain school. When you challenge them as to why, why is that school going to all of a sudden bring you all this joy? They don't have an answer, so it's like the race to nowhere, right? Because they can't identify what's next either. So this was brought about as like a pushback against that as well, to try to get our students to think about who are you and what are you chasing, and how does that actually actually identified in your identity as a human? I'll say that to our students a lot. I want you to be a human. Are you sleeping? Are you eating, and what's the last memory you have of your friends? Where?
Ryan Steuer:you're laughing, and sometimes they can't identify it. Oh wow, oh, that's so good. I needed you back in 1997 when I was graduating. If you've listened long enough, that's my story. I had a 4.2 out of a 4.0 because I was told I should go do AP classes and I was good at science and math. So I went to Purdue to be an engineer and, on my dad's credit, he was first generation college student and that's what got him out of his situation, his country poor situation, and was to go be an engineer. So he says that's what you guys are going to go do. So that's what my brother and I did.
Ryan Steuer:Turns out, I had no desire to be an engineer I was really good at it, actually but I did not want to do it my whole life and so, thankfully, I jumped ship and went and taught eighth grade English for a while and that'll straighten you out right away, yes, but I felt like I did all the things that I was told to do and never actually knew what I wanted to do. I feel like you guys are leading a great charge, so I'm super excited to have you here. So let's try to define some things. So how is values-based college selection different than our traditional approach of looking at school rankings. We've got some hints based on your why already, but can you help us kind of define some things better?
Jen Vallieres:Jason.
Jared Epler:Lowery. Yeah, I think of it in a couple of ways. For us, again, traditionally we're thinking about this like hard criteria with students, like size, location, distance from home, all of those things and then oftentimes it's all about numbers, right. What's my GPA? Where does that fit? What are my test scores? What's the ranking? What do my parents want for me? And it becomes something that's not human right and we're really pushing to say like let's have this really deep and reflective conversation and our goal is to help students learn about themselves. It's about self-discovery, it's about really thinking about who a student is. That's beyond numbers, right, and how I can identify a place where I, as a student, can thrive, because it's connected to something a little bit deeper right Than just what job are you going to have, right, or what are people going to think of me based on where I go.
Jen Vallieres:Yeah, so we call that first part the part that you referenced. How is it different that criteria search? And it does impact students Like we're. You know, distance from home, size of school right, that's something to be considered, but it's not the end all be all, because lots with us through a process of what is it that you value, some through some focus questions, and then students get separated and they go through a card sorting activity identifying the top values, and we've connected that to colleges.
Ryan Steuer:Now that's super strong, because I think in high school I'm not. And let's not make it a counseling session for Ryan, but I feel like I wouldn't even have known what I really cared about.
Ryan Steuer:Like I like to run right. So I would have been like, well, I like running. So like the card sorting is huge, because I don't think I had the vocabulary at the time either. So you've got this new approach. Can you give us a couple of questions that? Because I think you've been on both sides of this, like when you were traditionally helping kids find colleges, like what are some questions you would ask? And then now that's values based, what are some questions that you would ask?
Jared Epler:Sure, yeah, when I think about it the traditional way it and part of this is we were doing these college meetings and they felt a little bit stale. It's like we run through this checklist of, like size, location, what's your major, and we build it all around that. It's just kind of like sterile, right. And now we really think about like who, who are you? What is the life that you imagine for yourself? And I think about it in terms of like, what do you hope to be doing every day?
Jared Epler:Not don't tell me the job, but like what do you want life to feel like and look like? What are the things that are important to you? Are you someone who doesn't want to sit behind a desk every day? Do you want to collaborate with people? What would that look like for you? You know, is activism really important to you?
Jared Epler:So how do you find, you know, work with a mission driven organization that really, you know, connects with the things that you value in terms of activism and things like that? So it's this really deep reflective, like envisioning what your life could look like and then starting to think about what are the places that will further pull that out of you so that you can again live this life that you dream of and that you will feel fulfilled by, versus the students who go like well, college is supposed to be the best four years of my life and it's like no, it's about what comes after college. Right like, you're setting yourself up for life and we want it to be joyful and fulfilling and we've had students come back and say I don't know what I value.
Jen Vallieres:or better get parents say for their kids they don't know what they value which, or better get parents to say for their kids they don't know what they value which. We push back on gently. But when you sit down with a student and you start saying, okay, well, tell me what you do after school, that brings you joy, that you're not dreading. Sometimes you have to go that route too. We're finding that they can identify it, especially with some guided questions, and I think the card sort. We have some thoughts for them on it so they can flip it over and be like oh, this campus, this sound of this type of campus, really does sound like a better fit for me. That's where I'm gravitating, yeah.
Jared Epler:And I think it's asking things like what was the last time you felt lit up inside? Who were you with, what is it that you were doing and what can we pull out of that? That tells us something about what type of school, or even major or something, might be a really good fit for you. That's focused more on those things. So I think of it as like even though it's this tactile, like card sorting and website, it's really about teaching students to make decisions rooted in values and having. It's a lot of conversation and follow-up, question and reflecting and envisioning.
Jen Vallieres:Yep, and if you're not a counselor, this might sound a bit scary, so we do have it broken down for folks who might be a coach or a parent or guardian your questions to ask and it's a two-way street right. So it's questions for the students to ask back to their trusted adult what was your life like and how can I use your experiences to tease out what I value now as well?
Ryan Steuer:So good, and so I used to teach a first-generation college course, right, so it was all kids and their parents had never been to college and we used to do this thing where we would do these virtual visits to colleges. I forget the app now or the website, I guess, but them just being able to see a college campus was a really important piece it seemed like, especially for first generation college students. Do you see a difference in this approach and the effect that it has on a first generation college student versus somebody who's kind of been a my, you know, my, my parents went to college, their parents went to college. Do you see a difference in those?
Jared Epler:conversations? Yeah, I think definitely, because I think one it's overwhelming right. There's like over 4,000 colleges out there. A lot of my experience comes from working with first gen communities and first gen students and it's like, where do I even begin? And I think, doing it this way and again, when you use the tool and you find a specific school and it's not just we believe that the school you know focuses on collaboration or integrity, we're giving you a write-up and an example of what that looks like. What's that value and action on campus? And we find them when students are reading that and doing this activity. It's something more to sink your teeth into.
Jen Vallieres:I think it takes away the fear of like I'm just another person going through this process and I'm just a number. I think that any student really then sees like, oh, I can see myself in this value or these values and wow, that's something that I could find. A community that values that too. It takes the numbers.
Jared Epler:Yeah, it's like I can picture myself now taking that class that you referenced or joining that club or you know that piece of research or experiential learning. I think it helps students see themselves there in a different way than other. You know other ways that they may have with different conversations.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, and so I think I could see that parents are getting excited about this. If they, if they, catch the vision cause the kids get excited about it.
Ryan Steuer:Teachers can talk to the, the principals and the counselors that are in the audience listening and cause I. So high school of 2300 is one of our partners, right, and counselors have a big load, right. So part of it is like checklist, checklist, checklist next, checklist, checklist next. So you guys are kind of entrenched in that, I'm sure. So where does this fit? Because I feel like someone could be like, well, this is neat, but it's too much, I don't have time for that. Well, how do you answer that question?
Jen Vallieres:Mm-hmm. So we have a curriculum for counselors to work through. We get what their days are like and how busy it is, and we also get that that's not what they want, you know. That's why we stand made by counselors, for counselors. We got into this field because we want to have connections with students and this enables them to do that. It's broken down in a way where counselors, through different avenues, can help students get to what they value. I think it actually makes college meetings move faster because you're not sitting there asking the student on the spot to respond, especially if their parent is in the room. They have a moment to tease out on their own in their own mind, gather their thoughts. We always ask the student to respond first, before the parent.
Jared Epler:And that's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jen Vallieres:We very concretely say to the families you have to shush until we tell you it's your turn, respectfully. But I think when you're in education one of the big things, especially at the high school level right, is students having their own voice. And when you get caught up in the college process with family, students tend to lose that voice sometimes and this helps bring it back to them.
Jen Vallieres:But we've broken it down for counselors into smaller bites that are manageable, where they can pick and choose what feels right for them Our workbook. On our website you can pick activities based on what the student or the cohort of students you're working with needs. We have a school we were meeting with recently where they're going to implement this at different grade levels as they assist the kids work through the high school.
Jared Epler:Because we think of it like it's a movement Right, and this is again shifting this narrative. We recognize like we're we're all complacent in it in some way shape or form. So it takes time to be able to, to change that narrative. So it's instilling it beyond just sitting with a junior or senior and doing the cards right. It's like how do we talk to freshmen, how do we talk to their families about just life in general, right and values? And then we've just we will use this, you know, or encourage schools to use this in every college or post-secondary planning meeting that you might have, because it's just so beautiful to watch it happen, because now it becomes a conversation versus that. I'm just running down the checklist and we have found when we've used it, when people who are using it have used it they glow a little bit differently.
Jared Epler:It's like that was actually fun, like that was joyful. I saw a family connect and it's fun to see a family, like we say, go five for five and they pick the exact same five. It's equally as beautiful to watch it be totally different and apparent, to say, huh, like I had no idea that global citizenship was important to you and now there's like room to expand on that and talk and connect as a family also takes the pressure off in that moment.
Jen Vallieres:you're not not talking about colleges, you're talking about your kid, and who doesn't love to talk about their kid most of the time, right? So yeah.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, Gosh, I love the process Again. It's value-centered. Our learners are getting more voice, which is something we're always talking about in our movement. I mean even just using the word movement right, Like that works for us on our end. Like in Magnified Learning, we're talking about a PBL movement. We want 51% of kids using PBL by 2051. That's kind of our goal, and we know we can't do that alone. And same thing for you all. So what we like to do around here is we like to tell a lot of stories. Right, and some of your why's started with stories. Can you give us a success story of a learner who kind of found their perfect school by going through their values and through your process?
Jen Vallieres:Yeah, absolutely so. I think what's really cool about Forget the Rankings is it hits differently depending on the type of profile you're entering the conversation with, but one of my favorite examples more recently was a student I was working with who had a pretty high profile. She's, like you're, very stereotypical high-flying, good student puts a lot of pressure on herself, who, jen Valliere, had this in mind for when it was being created that sort of profile. She was very resistant to thinking about any colleges where the name didn't fly for her, where she couldn't feel proud to wear the sweatshirt on May 1st, you know all that sort of stuff, and her list represented that. The list of schools she was applying to would have been schools that we would call reach for anybody, and so a lot of the conversation in that meeting was surrounding like you need some schools that are what we call target or comfort schools, where your numbers even though that's not what we're about at the end of the day kind of look like the students who are accepted. So we use this as a platform for her without telling her that that was the reason we were using this.
Jen Vallieres:She went through the process and I'll never forget how quickly she was flipping the cards, because on the back of our cards is a QR code, okay, and that QR code takes us, takes you, to our website, directly, to the value that you've scanned with the list of colleges that we've curated.
Jen Vallieres:And the look on her face when she was finding schools that she had never heard of, but reading why she had actually picked spirituality was one of the values that she identified. The look on her face seeing how spirituality was embedded in the culture of those schools. That was one of the first times I have seen this student light up and for me that was everything, because the whole process for her changed at that moment. I recently looked at her list and it has shifted. These types of schools, um, and the reason she's applying to certain schools is a totally different mindset, and I I'm not hearing from her this year with emotional concerns about the process anymore, because she feels more grounded in the school she's applying to and she's not chasing some number anymore. She's chasing who she wants to be instead.
Ryan Steuer:That's super good Again, because we just don't know what's out there, right.
Jen Vallieres:When you're a high schooler.
Ryan Steuer:You don't know what's out there, and so any light that can be shed on the process, I think, is just positive. I think you guys are starting with the learner in mind, which, again, that's going to be a value that we love and we certainly want to promote. So this is fun. Let me give you a purely kind of PBL example. So in project-based learning, we're mastering standards through application in the real world. That's our bent, right. So when we do that, we're often trying to help learners discover their gifts and their talents, and it seems like we've got some similar values there again, right? So can you give me a couple examples? Who's most open to this idea and who's most resistant to it? Because I'm sure people I don't think everybody's going to grab this. If it's truly a movement, there's usually a little bit of friction somewhere.
Jared Epler:So if you can hit on both of those who slides into this really well and who also had some friction to it, I think a lot of counselors like us are jumping at this pretty quickly because they've been feeling this for a long time and want something fresh and new and recognize the toll that this process has taken on a student's mental health and wanting to change that right, wanting to be a different voice. So we're seeing a lot of the people who have been engaged in the process for years and years being like this is what has been needed. I think where we there's two places we get a lot of pushback.
Jared Epler:I would say one is from certain families, right, like we definitely have met families who are saying like great, but none of that matters, Like I want you to name a top 50 school that my child is likely to get into with a less than 25% accept rate and that's all that matters. Because a lot of the parents in many schools are talking to peers, right, and I think for many parents, in some way, the outcome of this process they think says something about the type of parent that they are or their success as a parent, right? So it can be so hard to like separate from that and really say, but wait, what's best for my child?
Jared Epler:So again I think that you know people who don't know the process as well get really hung up on names and brands and it's hard to get away from that. I would say. The other place we're getting some pushback I'm going to be really honest is in this kind of market of paid college admissions consultants right, because if you look and see kind of the fear-mongering advertising tactics a lot of these places use, it's like you want to get your kid into the best school and you know your kid will probably not get into many schools unless you use our secret method or whatever it will be, and we're trying to say like none of that matters, you should be looking there. You know the majority of schools accept the majority of applicants, but our movement is again about making it human and not being hyper focused on prestige and I think that some of those places there's something for them to lose and that's kind of demystifying it and making it about something different.
Jen Vallieres:And I think for the parents who aren't on board yet, we're going to get them.
Ryan Steuer:But who aren't on?
Jen Vallieres:board. Yet they are trapped in this mindset that, oh well, in order to have XYZ job, this is the type of school students have to go to. And I think you can play with statistics However you want to. I'm not a math person, but I hear you can play with statistics. We'll leave it at that. Yeah, you can bend that.
Jen Vallieres:So I mean, there is a lot out there that says that's not so true. Right, that where you go isn't who you're going to be, isn't going to define what type of career you have. Are there certain fields where maybe it sways that way a little bit more? Maybe you know, but I think Jared and I have had a lot of conversations over okay, let's pick on the business field, for instance. If you have a business oriented kid and you think you have to go to a certain school to end up at a certain job in a certain state, okay, maybe the values of that job are aligning then with those types of schools and maybe there's something there for you.
Jen Vallieres:Cause, remember, we're not saying you shouldn't go to brand name schools. We're saying how come you want to go to brand name schools? We're not, you know, we're not putting down any schools. It's the whole, why behind it and does it really support what you need in the long run? And I think that that ties in to the second part to all this. For us you know being licensed therapists as well we work with folks who are older, who have had a lot of career changes because they haven't thought about their choices in this mindset.
Jared Epler:Changes because they haven't thought about their choices in this mindset. Yeah, there's been so many times that I've sat with like a 35 to 40 year old person or client and we've done a value sort, because they say I'm miserable at my job. And then we do this. You know, they identify their top three values and so many of them have looked at me and they're like no wonder I hate my job. Like the three most important things to me are not present in this work or they don't. My job doesn't afford me the opportunity to live my life in these values. And that's where I think our goal is like we see less of that in the future. Right, that we're teaching students earlier to make those decisions and then not getting to be 40 and saying, wow, I went to school for this thing and I need to do this massive pivot and I don't have the time or money to be able to invest in a new degree. We're seeing a lot of those unhappy people, so could this be a tool that changes that for people in the future?
Ryan Steuer:I love it and I want to go right there. And you guys should get this statistic, Jen, somewhere in there. The number of people that dislike their job is ridiculously high right.
Jared Epler:It's it's?
Ryan Steuer:it's generally reported like over 60% of people that do not like their job and it's like what does that do to like mental health, Like that's your guys' kind of passion area, right, but even just like the GDP or like the world in general? Because people are in, they're just in the wrong jobs right, You've probably got an accountant that needs to switch with a counselor, right, and vice versa. So tell me about this. I want to frame this for you a little bit. Let's say that Forget. The Ranking achieves all of your goals and your vision over the next three to five years. What does the world look like when learners are selecting colleges based on values and not on rankings?
Jared Epler:Kids are happier. Not even kids Now. Adults are happier and healthier and more fulfilled, right Because they're making decisions that are more about what life can look like post-college than just about going to a specific school Know themselves better.
Jen Vallieres:And it's not just rooted in the college, it's all of their life choices. Choices come back to like who am I as a human and how do I want to put that out there in the world? But I mean, there's a, there's a lot of layers to this. That's the the individual part of it too. But I think for us, we also believe that there's so many hidden gem schools out there and we know some colleges are struggling right now with numbers. I think in our dream, in addition to helping the individual humans, these institutions, if we can get people to see the incredible value that they bring to the table maybe the lives of those faculty and staff members at those schools, we can keep those institutions afloat as well.
Jared Epler:I think about that all the time, the number of schools that are overlooked. I think about my own alma mater. That is one of those small, struggling, private liberal arts colleges that was completely transformative for me in terms of my life and who I am today, and I often think about the fact that I know most students overlook that as a place.
Jared Epler:Won't even like go to the website to learn more about it, and my hope is that, through activities like this, people aren't glossing over those schools and they're finding something really deep on that campus that connects with them, and that these schools are staying open and, you know, doing what they were put here to do and educating people beyond just this transactional like I'm going to get a job, like I'm going to college to become a better, more well-rounded human being, contribute to society, type of thing and I would love to see students access those schools who are overlooking them now.
Jen Vallieres:And I think the other piece to all of that is students transfer and if we approach this process differently, maybe the transfer rate wouldn't be as high, and I think that that would help students as well. I mean, college is expensive. So, transferring can be very expensive and it's one of my least favorite things.
Ryan Steuer:If there's another enemy, that because we always try to define our enemy and it's difficult for us because we're trying to transform schools, so it's not like traditional teaching isn't the enemy. We just think there might be a better way. But when kids go to college and they come back with debt and no degree, that might be the thing that gets me fired up the most. And right and I feel like you all are fighting that fight right Of finding the right college, meaning so many different things. Right, like I'm actually going to fit, I'm actually gonna be happy there, which means I'm much more likely to stay and persevere and actually get a degree.
Jen Vallieres:Yep Gosh this is exciting.
Ryan Steuer:I think I think the world, I think the world just looks better when people are choosing things values-based, like. Colleges need to be in this conversation too. I don't know if you've been able to approach colleges, but they do need some help. They're in the news saying, hey, do we really need to go there? And there's a lot of good experiences to be had. But we're also having some other conversations with some pretty larger organizations, universities saying, hey, we're also in this for the right reasons, we want to keep kids here for the right reasons, and they're looking to some different practices that maybe haven't been there before some SEL practices and saying, hey, how do we meet our learners where they're at? Oh, this is exciting. So we might have to have you back on because we probably have more to talk about, but for right now, as you're listening, I want you to go to forgettherankingscom forgettherankingscom and you can go and get the resources, and you can get a set of values cards and a membership to the resources. Find a college that hits your students' values, not just what they think they should be doing or what they've been told. And I would also say for those counselors, like if this resonates with you and you're getting as fired up as I am like. If you're like, yes, I'm in, they have an ambassador program, so you're getting the tools and resources in your hands and they've got. So go to their website, you can become an ambassador. You can get the resources and folks. You should just do this Like counselors. It's in your budget somewhere.
Ryan Steuer:You heard Jen say it's actually going to speed up your process, so you're trying to figure out how do I get through this process? You don't want to make it a checklist that you just put kids through on the industrial revolution like a factory cycle and you're tired of being stuck in that. This could very well be the answer. I can't figure out why you wouldn't try. Now, jared and Jen, we're going to give you one last voice here. I want you to imagine that you're in front of a room full of teachers and principals. They're pouring their heart and souls into their work every single day. They truly desire the best outcomes and opportunities for their learners, despite a lot of obstacles. What parting advice do you have for them that will help them on their journey?
Jared Epler:For me it's enjoy the journey, right, Like I think we always are thinking about the outcome, the number, and I think there's so much as an educator to watch a student grow and learn through the process right, and that's why I think this tool is so great that maybe a student doesn't end up at one of the schools on one of our lists, but they end up at a school because they've learned this framework, they understand the importance of value. So I think it's like enjoy that ride and know that, like, even in those small moments it could be a 30 second, two minute conversation with a student and they're taking away something so powerful from that interaction with you that, like, even those really small moments really matter, that interaction with you, that, like even those really small moments, really matter.
Jen Vallieres:Yeah, and I think also too, we always say where you, where you're accepted, doesn't define who you are as a human right, and that goes for the educators too. Like what you've accomplished it doesn't define you, it's what you, who you are as a human and so as educators, if we can act this out for students every day and show them like here are my values and here's how I'm going to stand behind them in the classroom and what are your values and where are you going to take those in life, I think we're setting them up for success down the road.
Ryan Steuer:Yeah, I think so. So, educators that are listening, enjoy the journey right. Share your values right. Right, encourage your learners to share your values. Jen and jared, thank you so much for being on to share today. I really appreciate it, thanks for having us all right.
Ryan Steuer:Pbl simplified audience. Uh, you heard a way to forget the rankings, so if that's bringing anxiety to your learners, your parents or your counselors, right, we've got a tool for you so you can go to forgettherankingscom and see what Jared and Jen have for you. In the meantime, I want you to continue to focus on what you can control, look at your vision and see how you can launch that and start a movement. Go lead inspired. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the PBL Simplified Podcast. I appreciate you and honor that you tune in each week. Would you please take two minutes to leave a rating and a review? When you leave a review, it lets the next person know that this is a podcast worth listening to. When they go into their player and search project-based learning, and PBL Simplified popped up, when they see those reviews, they know that high quality, visionary leaders are listening, so they tune in too and they can find their way into the PBL journey. Thank you so much for leaving a review. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate you.
